WASHINGTON – Megachurch pastor Rick Warren suggested Sunday that mainline churches need to reconcile with evangelicals to counter its mounting problem of membership decline.
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(Photo: The Christian Post)Pastor Rick Warren speaks to Dean Samuel T. Lloyd III of the Washington National Cathedral during the Sunday Forum: Critical Issues in the Light of Faith on Sunday, Jan. 27, 2008 in Washington, D.C.
“The reconciliation is that in a pluralistic world…we (Christians) need to be on the same team because we share the same savior,” Warren contended Sunday, as he spoke with the dean of the Washington National Cathedral, Samuel T. Lloyd III, who observed that evangelical churches are thriving and full of vitality, while most mainline denominations are confronting worrisome membership decline.
During the Cathedral’s weekly Sunday Forum: Critical Issues in the Light of Faith, Lloyd asked Warren how mainlines should tackle the problem.
“100 years ago the phrase ‘social gospel’ first came out,” Warren responded. “Some people took that to mean only if we reform the social government and society and not personal faith in Christ Jesus – that is, if we make the world a better place – we don’t need personal redemption.”
That idea led to mainline churches going “one way” and evangelical churches another way, he said.
In general, mainline churches focused on social morality such as fighting poverty, racism and economic justice. Meanwhile, evangelical churches concentrated on personal morality such as personal salvation, fighting pornography, and upholding family values.
“Who’s right? The fact is both are right,” Warren emphasized. “Somehow we got divided like Jesus didn’t care about society or members of society didn’t need Jesus. I think we need both.”
Warren called for “reconciliation” between mainline and evangelical churches and reminded the audience that Jesus taught his followers to love their God with all their heart, mind and soul, as well as to love their neighbors as themselves.
“You can’t just love your neighbor; you got to love God,” Warren said. “And you can’t just love God; you have to love your neighbors. And mainline protestant and evangelical – we need both wings.”
Earlier in the program, Warren shared about his 20,000-member Saddleback Church, an evangelical church that has more than 400 ministries reaching out to different parts of society including prison ministry and programs helping people infected with HIV/AIDS.
The megachurch pastor also praised small church groups that meet in people’s homes in strengthening Saddleback. The church has more than 3,600 small groups stretching 100 miles away from the main campus – or at least one in every city in southern California.
Warren said proudly that there are more people meeting in small groups each week – about 30,000 – than attending Sunday service.
“I could drop dead right now and the church would still be growing,” Warren joked half-seriously.
The community-building guru added the church is not built around one figure and that he spends only about half the year preaching at Saddleback and the rest traveling to speak and train pastors around the world.
Warren also highlighted that the evangelical church offers about 22 different worship styles across its campus on Sunday but listens to the same sermon. Continue >>
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I agree with Bill Wagner,candidate for SBC president 2008, that there are too much political reasoning involve . The International Mission Board has new direction and new strategy . It is no longer a missionary sending agency as it should be . It is a company . It used to be like a family when everyone related to each other as uncle and aunt . The mission family is a thing of the past . Now it is a company with big boss and small bosses. Pray that God will move the Southern Baptists to become a sending tools for the family of God .
Brothers in Christ, take these words from 2 Thessalonians to heart…“not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter” and “Let no one deceive you by any means” because “the falling away comes first” in order that “the man of sin is revealed.” “Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?” And they are still true today.
“The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
This is why 1 John 2:27 states: “the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.”
Remember we have a teacher who teaches those who seek his will and way as their first love. Let those who are blind lead the blind and remember what our God has said: “For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, says the LORD, and I will bring you back from your captivity; I will gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you, says the LORD, and I will bring you to the place from which I cause you to be carried away captive.”
This is not to say we don’t “contend for the faith”, we must, but not to let those we contend with continue to consume our pearls. Jesus instructed his disciples thus: “If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.”
Don't forget that Jesus, by his own attestation, did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
dum dum dum...Jeremiah was a prophet!
dum dum dum...Was a good friend of mine!
I couldn't understand a word he wrote,
But he laid it on the line....
Joy to the world...
LOL
...(imagine soft music playing along)...what the world needs now is love sweet love...it's the onlllyyy thinnnnnggg that there's just to litttttllleee of ..what the world needs now is love sweet love....EVERYBODY SING ALONG...what the world needs now.....
Rick Warren, The Emergent Church, pretty much the whole democratic party including, but not limited to Al Gore, Jimmy Carter, Hillary, Barbara Boxer, and Bill Clinton, as well as those in the Republican Party with a liberal New-Age Agenda along with the Theosophical Society and the UN all need to be deported to the South Sandwich Islands or France.
1 Timothy 4:1
[ The Great Apostasy ] Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1-3 (in Context) 1 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
2 Timothy 4:2-4 (in Context) 2 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
2 Peter 2:1
[ Destructive Doctrines ] But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter
KoneWone2,
Listen now to Worldview Matters with Brannon Howse:
http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/radio-show-episode.php?EpisodeID=4328
This was an excellent discussion on Worldviews and it also gave additional insight to how liberals such as Rick Warren are ignoring the exclusivity of biblical Christianity for a pluralistic religion.
Thanks for the link.
1 Timothy 4:1
[ The Great Apostasy ] Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1-3 (in Context) 1 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
2 Timothy 4:2-4 (in Context) 2 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
2 Peter 2:1
[ Destructive Doctrines ] But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:4
[ Doom of False Teachers ] For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
2 Peter 2:3-5 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:12
[ Depravity of False Teachers ] But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
2 Peter 2:11-13 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:18
[ Deceptions of False Teachers ] For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
2 Peter 2:17-19 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
Let's give Pastor Warren fair ground on tithing. How many of you can give 90%? I know I can't. Although criticized by some as being too doctrinally weak, A PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE fills a need and provides a bridge to faith for unbelievers. It helped me and my children. Paul spoke of the young believer needing milk...Well if APDL is not milk...at least it is baby formula. We've moved on to meatier stuff...Yes understanding the Bible takes work...but it is not hard. Let's acknowledge the truly Christian service that Pastor Warren has provided with APDL, and don't begrudge the bountiful fruit of thousands of readers who were turned to the Lord. As far as I can see, his financial wealth is blessing. We don't have to agree with everything any Pastor says or does...Remember not to judge…We all sin.
suxam,
To play the "devil's advocate" (though I don't like that term). If giving in secret is encouraged, why did Jesus sit by the church treasury watching how much people put in? Yes, He is the Son of God, and probably had a right to know. But why did He divulge it to His disciples?
I'm not arguing your point, I'm merely wanting to know your opinion. I actually agree with you. My giving is between me, God, and my pastor (since I hold an office in our church). It is no one else's business.
It is great that Warren gives 90%. Of course, there is the tax free housing allowance; all expenses paid for just about everything; first class travel or private jet. And 10% times ten to twenty million not to mention the further protection of charitable giving should leave Warren with enough to get by. He may even forego social security checks. Last time I checked the Bible giving in secret was still encouraged.
Jonathon wrote:
"You quote bible but you do not know what it means. You judge others but you yourself is worst of the sinners. Aren't you scared to judge others? I am. Especially, people that bare fruits, how do you feel alright to judge them and condemn them especially using bible? Bible that you do not understand."
And then wrote:
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing."
But, yet, I see no love in him. There is no love in his posts. Just pride, anger, judgement, and piousness.
So be it.
jonathan wrote:
"Jesus drank to traitor tax collector. You will hang him.
Jesus talked to woman 5 divorced with live-in boyfriend. You will hang her.
Jesus will cuss at fundamentalist (teachers of law and pharisees.) You love them.
Jesus said to be the peace maker. You love war. Kill the Muslims.
Jesus fed the hungry. You will make sure they don't get fed if they don't believe you.
Jesus was hang by the politicians(both roman and jewish). You use politics for such purpose."
Can you please tell me whewre in the Bible Jesus cussed at someone?
And please, when you reference Scripture, please tell the whole story. The woamn at the well that had been divorced 5 times, you will notice that Jesus loved her and did not condemn her, but notice the key phrase you left out in your conclusion of fundamentalism - you failed to say that Jesus said - "go and sin no more". Obviously Jesus knew there was a willful repentance in her heart to turn to Him as LORD and SAVIOR.
Furthermore, when Jesus told Peter: :"Get thee behind me Satan...." Do you think Jesus was "loving" in your interpretation of the word "love oozing out of people"???????
When Paul named Hymenaeous and Alexander as having fallen and leaving the straight and narrow, was not Paul being true to his calling in pointing out those that had followed error.
I am not Pharassaical by pointing people to the whole counsel of God. Am I being pHarissaical by stating that Jesus is the only way to God??????? Am I being Pharrasaical by quoting Scripture in CONTEXT by exhorting people to repent if they are in willful, deliberate living in sin and still claiming to be "alright" with God? Am I being a Pharisee because I desire to see the TRUTH of God's Whole Counsel being preached and taught in purity and truth from America's pulpits rather than having a "humanitarian form of evangelicalism" without preaching the truth of Jesus Christ being the only way to God????
No Jonathan, study your Bible from A-Z. You must have repentance and a willful turning to Christ, a sincere desire to rurn from your sin, and a belief in Him not just intellectually, but from the heart, a sincere desire to die to yourself daily, pick up your cross, and follow Christ in order to be saved. Paul did not live out the "cultural" Christianity we see in many church movements today, no, he lived it out and said he was not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
jonathan--
Faith requires repentance (sometimes daily repentance). You have not read your Bible very carefully. Jesus speaks of repentance often. So does Paul. So does James. Faith that does not result in repentance and good works is dead faith. It's mere intellectual assent. James says that even the demons believe in God. Real, true saving faith is a faith that produces good works from the heart, and repentance from the heart. It is not so much that repentance and good works are *required* for salvation, but that a saving faith is one that will produce good works and repentance. Hope that makes sense. And this is believed just as strongly in the protestant tradition (at least mainline Lutheran, etc) as it is in the Catholic tradition.
Hope that made sense to you.
Also don't worry about how you look, everyone on this post looks obsessed (even the atheists)