Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama suggested Wednesday that Jesus Christ is not the only way to heaven during a campaign event in North Carolina.
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(Photo: AP Images / Alex Brandon)Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama D-Ill., speaks at a town hall meeting in Greensboro, N.C., Wednesday, March 26, 2008.
While answering a question about his Christian faith, Obama said he believes that Jesus Christ died for his sins and through God’s grace and mercy he could have “everlasting life,” according to the Los Angeles Times.
But he also believes Jews and Muslims and non-believers who live moral lives are as much “children of God” as he is, according to The Associated Press.
As an example, he spoke about his late mother who was “not a believer.”
"[S]he was the kindest, most decent, generous person that I have ever known," Obama said, according to the Times. "I'm sure she is in heaven, even though she may not have subscribed to everything that I subscribe to."
Obama’s response came amid the recent controversy surrounding his former Chicago pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who made inflammatory remarks about race and America in sermons he delivered many years ago.
The Illinois senator, who has made religion a cornerstone of his campaign, has denounced the comments – which included “God damn America” for its racism – but refuses to distance himself from the pastor, whom he compares to an uncle.
During his response on Wednesday, Obama praised his church, Trinity United Church of Christ, especially its choir, and said it was very warm and welcoming and is like any other church in America in that it exists to praise God.
Obama also said he believes in putting the Gospel to action here on Earth and treating people with “dignity” and “respect” as children of God, according to the Los Angeles Times.
Currently, Obama is leading the Democratic race with 1,622 delegates compared to Hillary Clinton’s 1,485, according to CNN.
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I recommend that we all check out Spinoza's Theological-Political Treatise, particularly the essay on faith contained therein. I'm not citing him as an authority, but rather suggesting that there is some food for thought there that we all might benefit from contemplating, and THEN coming to an objective decision.
First of all, I strongly disagree with Barack Obama's pro-abortion policy, so I'm not an Obama partisan; but I think he has hit the nail on the head. It's easy to 'proof-text' and quote 'I am the Way the Truth and the Life' but really this is a nonsensical way to treat the Bible. St John's Gospel is very much focused on the Divinity of Christ as revealed in Jesus. Therefore the meaning of the text, when examined more objectively, seems to be, 'Those who follow Christ' i.e. who live according to Reason [Logos/Reason being another name of the Spirit of Christ] will be raised up at the last day. According to my reading, Jesus was NOTã
I am outraged!!
Today, November 2, 2008 a campaigning van for Obama parked itself right in front of my Church in Milford, PA.. uninvited, with campaign bulletins plastered all around it during today's service while everyone was inside unaware! After service several of us noticed and ran towards the van. My husband tried to confront the "driver", but the driver kept his window closed and wouldn't respond. After a few minutes, while more parishioners exited the church, he sped away!! We reported his license plate to our Pastor who was still unaware of this sacrilege and possible "crime" of illegal campaigning on private grounds. This "campaigner" was obviously trying to FALSELY show to passer by's that our Church was supportive of Obama!! What kind of PEOPLE would do something LIKE THIS??? Think about it! Obama and his campaigners are DESPERATE for a CHRISTIAN VOTE!! And will do anything, including breaking the law if need be to get it!!
Well, the irony is part of today's sermon had to do with the election and God's will. And whoever becomes our next president will also fall under God's will. Even if the one who is elected may be the one who rolls the red carpet out for the building blocks of the anti-christ. It will be God's will.
Does it even matter what the religion of the president is? Church and government should be seperated.
Bush may be christian but he made the USA a worse place. Religion in government doesn't matter. If it did, the pope would probably be president.
According to a WorldNetDaily article ( http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pageId=77539 ), Louis Farrakhan has stated that Obama is "The Messiah".
Such an endorsement sent shivers down the spine of Obama, who afterward delivered a statement distancing himself from and denouncing Farrakhan. Yet, Obama also, in a campaign stop, stated "I have campaigned in all 57 states".
Mainstream media has passed off that remark as the exhaustion of a presidential candidate. Yet, when one learns that there are 57 Islamic states, then the picture begins to become a little less cloudy regarding who Obama truly is.
The cloak surrounding the true nature of who Obama really is has slowly begun to unravel. And, when he's elected to the highest office in this great land, that cloak will totally be removed, only then, it will be too late for us to do anything about it.
2 Chronicles 7:14 " If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."
I fear that it is too late for America.
"I am the way the truth and the life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father BUT BY ME." -- Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Jesus is the ONLY way to the glorious kingdom of heaven. God bless us all!
continues.....an excerpt from
'We Are All Sinners'
In the final weeks of the 2000 election, George W. Bush discussed his faith and policies
BELIEFNET: Under your proposals for helping faith-based organizations, money might go to something like a prison fellowship that teaches prisoners the Bible as part of the program to help people toward recovery.
BUSH: Yes, absolutely.
BELIEFNET: How would you feel if government money instead was, say, subsidizing the Muslim group that taught prisoners the Qur'an?
BUSH: The question I'd be asking is what are the recidivism rates? Is it working? And secondly, is there a secular alternative available? So the answer to your question is I wouldn't object at all if the program worked.
BELIEFNET: Even though, effectively, it would mean that taxpayer money would be going to help a group teach the Qur'an or the Bible?
BUSH: Right, that's right. But effectively, what I'm focusing on is the prisoner and the result of the program. I mean, I answered this question a lot in Texas. It can be any religion. And the question was, "Are you promoting religion by using people's, taxpayers' money?" And I said, "No, I'm promoting lower recidivism rates, and we will measure to make sure that that's the case."
A results-oriented world says "let's achieve some common objectives and some common goals," and if teaching Bible study or the Qur'an is a method that works, we should welcome it, so long as it's a voluntary program and people, of course, there is going to be a secular alternative that's called 'regular jail.' But so long as the prisoners can pick and choose.
Seems Bush's comments are similar to Barack's............ummmmm.........
Jennifer Riley (Christian Post reporter): Was this posted on this site in '2000?
Check out this Interview.....an excerpt from
'We Are All Sinners'
In the final weeks of the 2000 election, George W. Bush discussed his faith and policies with Editor-in-Chief, Steve Waldman.
BELIEFNET: Do you think that all major religions are equally true?
BUSH: I think that we're all God's children, and far be it from me, as a lowly sinner, trying to decide who gets to go to heaven and who doesn't, for example. I mean at one time, in 1994, I said, "My faith says you must accept Christ to go to heaven." And there was a significant backlash because, as typical in politics, the full story wasn't told. And there was a typical backlash amongst, you know, some Jewish people in Texas that basically felt I had said that they can't go to heaven. I worked hard to make it clear to people, far be it from me to tell you I get to decide who goes. I'm working on myself. I'm focused on me.
And so to answer your question, there are great religions in the world, and it's important to recognize that there are great religions in the world. And there are many shared tenets of the great religions. "Love a neighbor like you'd like to be loved yourself." And there are some wonderful callings. I just happen to be a Christian.
BELIEFNET: If you believe that the way to the Kingdom of God for you is Jesus Christ, in a sense don't you have a moral obligation to try to urge other people to follow the same path?
BUSH: Not in my line of work I don't. My line of work is political. My line of work [my job] is to walk the walk, and respect others, and respect their religions. And secondly, I'm not so presumptuous as to play God. There are many great religions in the world.
God is all-powerful and all-knowing, and, you know, we'll never know until we get to heaven the ultimate answers to many of the religious questions. But the president of the United States' job is not to try to convert people to religion. The president of the United States' job is to set an example, to make sound decisions, to respect religion, and, if asked, to herald religion. But the key is not to hold out, you know, my religion is better than yours.
continues.............
D. Walker
Yes, it is hard to imagine a beloved parent not being in heaven. I had to address this issue with my parents' deaths. However, perhaps you missed some of the rest of this article.
"But he also believes Jews and Muslims and non-believers who live moral lives are as much “children of God” as he is, according to The Associated Press.
As an example, he spoke about his late mother who was “not a believer.”
Does he believe that Jesus is not the "only" way to heaven? If he does, then he is certainly not a christian. But he says he is. So the question becomes, what in fact does he REALLY believe. And this is an issue only because HE has made his religious beliefs such an issue.
There is an article about his autobiography, "Dreams From My Father", if you would care to read it.
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/coulter040308.php3
It appears that you do not believe Obama is not a christian, nor, from other posts, do you appear to believe that his pastor may have some real problems (in spite of his support of Louis Farakhan). Care to share some thoughts on that?
Being that Obama is not a Christian teacher, I would advise all those of you proclaiming to follow Christ to pray for him in believing such error.
Please try to be compassionate with him, if this is what he must believe for now. How many of you can say that you would accept such a truth if it was your parent who you loved so much and who loved you so much and who was a loving and good person? Think the truth concerning salvation concerning someone you loved so much would be so esy to accept under the circumstances?
God will prepare Obama's heart in this area of truth concerning his mother. Why don't all of you show some compassion and pray for Obama to be able to come to terms with this painful truth concerning a loved one. It isn't an easy thing.
Self righteousness is what I am hearing way too much in these postings. I do not hear anything resembling Christ.
What?
Inner and outer works are of no good. YOU cannot do this on your own, whether by transforming your life by outward actions/works or by re-writing your own life with inner works. That is the agnostic way - through knowledge transform yourself - when in fact true soul changes that stick can only be achieved through a relationship with Jesus. Try it and see.
Why is God blamed for mankind's refusal to follow Him? I mean if a judge gives you a reprieve for a crime and you refuse it, is it his fault? If the same judge warns you that if he ever sees you in his courtroom again for the same crime (or any crime for that matter) and you ignore him, is he to blame for sending you to prison when you break the law again?
It seems to me, God has warned and warned and warned mankind again and again to turn from sin and to Him, but they refuse. Not to mention in America there is a plethora of resources at our disposal to help us "find" answers yet many reject them. How then can we blame God when we ignore His continued warnings and pleas to turn from sin? Do we think He's kidding? Hell is the only place a person who rejects God can get all he ever wanted.
Someone once said, "Heaven would be a miserable place for someone who doesn't want to be there." To be constantly surrounded by the holiness of God and unable to pursue our own rebellious desires would make someone who despises God's laws miserable for eternity. To them, THAT would be hell.
As for Obama's comments: I suppose now, the very Son of God is a liar when He said:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6
Let me see now, in whom will I trust? Barack Obama or Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God? If Barack is a Christian how is it that this basic Christian doctrine somehow escapes him?
scitsonga,
I can relate to where you are coming from and I am not going to try to sell you a bill of goods. I once looked at this whole spiritual concept from the same perspective as you are and I realized it was very confusing in my understanding of it. It didn't make any sense to me either. My problem was I was looking at the situation from my limited understanding. I had a thousand question of why. The biggest one was how could a loving God send someone to the place called that I had heard about. I never could understand that until one day for some reason I trusted this God that everyone was speaking about. With all of the questions I had and couldn't find answers for I trusted Him. Don't ask why as I didn't have understanding at this point but trusted by faith. It was at this point that I began to understand that if I had the understanding I would not need faith. As this insight was made known to me I realized another thing. I realized that I just received an answer from somewhere that I never heard before. I took advantage of this situation by trusting that I had just opened a box for dialogue between me and this God I had heard of and immediately asked the question,” God if this is you speaking to my mind why does it seem you are so cruel as to send your creation to this place called hell?" The insight that flooded my mind at this point was almost overwhelming but understandable. The insight God showed me was in relation to my own son. I can love my son to no end and do, teach him right and wrong, discipline him accordingly, reward him as well, but his destiny is based on the choices he makes regardless of how much I love him, reward him, or discipline him. If he chooses to do wrong and act against what I have taught him and warned him about then he will suffer the consequences of his actions and choices. If he ends up in prison, it will not be because the judge sent him there; it will be because he chose to go against the law. The judge only exercises the justness of the law. The judge may not want to do this, but the same law applies to everyone. Sometimes the judge may offer an alternative to the extreme punishment. But again, it would be my son’s choice as to whether or not to accept the offer. If he does, mercy is shown and extreme punishment is avoided. However, if he does not, then he suffers the consequences of his choice. This is the same with God as He sent His son to be alternative to extreme punishment. God does love us, wants the best for us, and has offered to us an alternative in Jesus Christ. It is up to us to accept or reject his offer and experience the consequences of our choices.
For matters of importance, I never accept anything as fact from a single source. Troubling in that these beliefs are then used to justify telling others that their non-believer friends and relatives are getting the eternal torture treatment. For example, on these posts concerning the fate of Sen. Obama’s late mother who may have been Muslim. To me it’s a disturbed person that tells someone that’s lost a loved one that they are getting the eternal torture treatment because they didn’t believe in Jesus. That happened to me when I was young; I have resented Christianity ever since that time. I know people that have grown up in churches that indoctrinated them as children to the threat of eternal torture after death; they now live in irrational fear about death.
The Bible is not based on man understanding nor on whether you accept it or not. God did not swear by man but by Himself. God makes unbreakable promises to His people. He has a standard he will not depart from. He is holy, just, faithful, honest, sincere, truthworthy and etc.
God has told us His standard for us. God said demon believe but they have no good works.
Demon are cast out angles who did not keep their proper domain, God has reserved for everlasting judgment. Now if demon have faith in God and they won't make it, why then should nonbelievers get in. God has sent His Word, and it is still here.
scitsonga on your job, do you think it woud be fair to pay people who did not work but just wanted money?
citsonga, on what basis do you make these accusations and judgments? Is this your own private ethical system or is it just a matter of personal distaste that causes you to arrive at this conception of the morality of eternal judgment?
You like to use this phrase 'eternal torture chamber' in reference to hell, as having a very personal offense to you, not whether or not it is actually true. I do not think it is wise for anyone to speculate as to which person is in hell or who is absolutely going there. I think that the Bible is the standard authority on such references and that it is God's word not mine. What this means to me is that it is useful to warn others about the dangers of hell and the hope of heaven, but not in condemning people off the cuff. In other words, eternal reality is not like choosing one of Baskin Robins’ 31 flavors ice cream, as if it were a matter of a preferred flavor. If hell is truly real, then it is truly real whether we like it or not. When I think of hell, I think of it in terms of how much God loves me. It only further demonstrates how much God loves all of us in that He offered Himself in our stead.
Addition to previous post:
I cannot respect the critical thinking abilities of a person who claims to have put themselves into a faith wholeheartedly, but then turns around and says it's not for everyone. God is pretty clear that Christ came for everyone, and WHOEVER BELIEVES shall receive eternal life with Him. There's no getting around that.
God also tells us very clearly we are not saved by works, but by faith - in Jesus. Works are from faith - we love God and want to serve Him. We serve Him not because we think we can get something from Him, but because of who He is and a desire to show our love. Those that think they will be saved by their own works, done in their own time and out of their own desires will not see heaven.
Obama wants to be my president, but he is not displaying very clear thinking. That worries me. Either he believes Jesus is who He says He is, or he should ditch the faith. Anything less is either ignorance (which I won't tolerate in a president), hypocrisy, or arrogance (which is very dangerous for people in power, particularly).
As an aside:
People here are comparing hell with some kind of sadistic, eternal torture chamber. I hope it isn't. While I have never done an in-depth study of the concept of Hell, here's what I think of it at the moment: When I hear fire and brimstone, weeping and gnashing of teeth, I think of shame and regret. Shame can be a burning feeling which can be quite intense, and regret brings weeping and gnashing of teeth. Eternal separation from the glory of God (especially once that glory is verified) could certainly induce those emotions, and it is unlikely that one would ever truly get over them. The idea of Satan running around jabbing people with pitchforks is ludicrous and a construct of the human imagination - another ploy by Satan to get us to dismiss the idea of hell, if you ask me. Just something to think about. What are some of your concepts of Hell?
Dear Ag, I pray that I do not hinder the work of Christ in my response, but I feel moved to comment on some of your points. First, the single source of information, the Bible, is a collection of 66 books, written by over 40 different authors over the span of 2000 years. It is a work of literary art, archeological facts, historical, prophetic, timeless, seamless, and harmoniously woven love story inspired by God to speak and teach us. To my knowledge, there is no other collection of reference materials that has impacted the world as this. I’m sorry you were burned at such a young age by a Christian. We’re not perfect and we don’t always get the message of Christ across as we should. We all have our own issues, battles, faults, dirty closets. Believing in Christ doesn’t magically make them go away – it only gives us hope to break free from the guilt and shame of them by the Grace of a loving and forgiving God. I don’t prescribe to the whereabouts of the deceased. Only God knows what happened when that person stood before His judgment throne. If a friend says to me “My Mom passed away, and she never believed in Jesus” – I can only bring myself to pray for that friend and his family, and to be there for that friend the best I can. I feel most people would respond this way – but I have heard of stories of “bad timing” when an un-sensitive word was said to a grieving family. Again, we’re not perfect – Jesus is. I haven’t read in the Bible anything about God torturing people for eternity if they don’t do this or that. God is love. For me, being out of His presence is torture, hell. My faith in Him assures me that I will spend eternity with Him. From the beginning He has been fighting to get us and keep us in His presence. Those that believe do not fear death. Death is a weak motivation for faith in Jesus, especially since he defeated death and freed us from that fear. There is more than this. I think a part of you is still looking 0 otherwise why would you be exploring a Christian news website. He does love you. Always has, always will. Peace.
As an agnostic, I find these posts talking about heaven & hell both interesting and troubling. It’s interesting in that a person can unequivocally accept the notion of eternal paradise OR eternal torture, depending on ones thinking, beliefs and interpretation, based on a single source of information – the Bible. For matters of importance, I never accept anything as fact from a single source. Troubling in that these beliefs are then used to justify telling others that their non-believer friends and relatives are getting the eternal torture treatment. For example, on these posts concerning the fate of Sen. Obama’s late mother who may have been Muslim. To me it’s a disturbed person that tells someone that’s lost a loved one that they are getting the eternal torture treatment because they didn’t believe in Jesus. That happened to me when I was young; I have resented Christianity ever since that time. I know people that have grown up in churches that indoctrinated them as children to the threat of eternal torture after death; they now live in irrational fear about death. I find it interesting too, that Christians tell me that Christianity is about love on one hand, and then tell me that God will have me tortured for an eternity if I don’t accept or believe in certain things. This makes absolutely no sense to me at all, it defies all sense of logic and reason. Sending people to a place of torture for an eternity would mean that God is cruel indeed, makes the likes of Hitler & Stalin seem rather benign by comparison. To those that believe in the heaven & torture thing, I say what ever makes you happy and works for you. What works for me is, I try to make the most out of what my life and try not to hurt too many people along the way, then my life is over- THE END……no problem, I have no expectations for a life after death. The fear of death is the big driver for many to want to believe, its certainly understandable. The difference, to some degree, of those that believe and those that do not is probably related to genetics-religiosity genes. Some have them, others do not.
If his mother is in heaven by her good works then Jesus died for nothing. He could sway alot of people into believing that if they are good people like he says his mom was, then they won't need Jesus. That's awful! He needs to study the bible It's all true, and it clearly says in John 14:6 that Jesus is saying that "I am THE Way, THE Tuth, and THE Life. No man comes to the father except through me". That's clear that Jesus is THE WAY-which means the only way. No one comes to God but through Him. My 10 year old can understand that. Also how can Obama call hmself Christian if he belives it is ok to have abortions?
This philosophy is derived from Indonesian PANCASILA first SILA – and its not coming from the Holy Bible.
I agree that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way, just as the word makes clear. I must say though that I have not heard one candidate this year say everything right and completely agreeable with God's way. At least Barak is openly admitting that he is a Christian and believes in Jesus for his salvation (though the other comment is indeed inaccurate - or at least, we are not in position to understand God's will for those who HAVE NOT heard the good news).
What are the other candidates saying about Jesus? Is someone out there getting it completely right?
2 Peter 1:1-3.
But there were false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
I believe in Jesus and that my salvation is secure in Him that I believe, thanks to the Grace of God on my sinful stat.
If Mr. Obama believes his mother is a "non believer" and is in heaven based on her good heart, than the grace of God that saved me can be trumped by works. This is in contradiction with the Bible and therefore false.
I used by brain to come up with this.
I don't see how this is so bad... I got the "jest" that this was a flame against Obama for stating that other people, who don't necessarily believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ can go to heaven to reside with God and his Angels. Who am I to judge if a Muslim or a Jew isn't allowed into the kingdom of heaven? Isn't that God's job?
Either you aren't saved or your discernment of the truth is working. Jesus, all Christians Savior, said He is the way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Now do you call Jesus a liar? SpiritOfChrist.
Since God requires our sins to be atoned for and non-believers don't have atonement how can their sins be forgiven?
I don't see how this is so bad... I got the "jest" that this was a flame against Obama for stating that other people, who don't necessarily believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ can go to heaven to reside with God and his Angels. Who am I to judge if a Muslim or a Jew isn't allowed into the kingdom of heaven? Isn't that God's job?
Remember people, use disernment. It's a God given spiritual ability that He wants you to use!! Don't listen to nut jobs who have an agenda no matter what religion they use to support their radical ideas. Christians can be radicals as well. Look at Rod Parsley and John Hagee. They've spouted hateful speeches against various groups in America, so don't just blame the hate speeches on Rev. Wright.
Again, people, please use that thing we call a brain and think for yourself!! God gave us the ability, use it!!
FORGET OBAMA!!!! He is meaningless. Listen to Jesus Christ - I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER, EXCEPT BY ME!!!
We need to focus our attention to where it belongs!!! It is not Obama. He will be defeated!! It is on Jesus Christ - He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords!!!
REPENT, FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!!!!
Finally, he has run his true colors up the flag pole. I always had the feeling he was a coy, two-faced sort of person, and now I know why. He was playing the religion card to try to get some of the Christian vote, but he has really blown it by not taking a real stand for Jesus.
It sounds to me like he is ashamed of Jesus when he says He is not REALLY the only way to God. That doesn't bode well at all for Obama.
Unfortunately, many people will be warmed and enchanted by Obama's remarkable "tolerance" and "understanding", and may even flock to seeker-sensitive, watered-down, feel-good churches. Leading people astray doesn't bode well for Obama, either.
That said, there are a lot of "Christians" who think the way Obama does, so it makes me wonder how much of the Christian vote he has really lost. He never had my vote to begin with, so that's a moot point.
BobV,
How can you reconcile these obvious contradictions between what these Popes have stated?
Pope Innocent III (circa 1160 - 1216 CE) is considered "one of the greatest popes of the Middle Ages..." 1 At the Fourth Lateran Council (a.k.a. the General Council of Lateran, and the Great Council) he wrote:
"There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved."
Pope Boniface VIII (1235-1303 CE) promulgated a Papal Bull in 1302 CE titled Unam Sanctam (One Holy). He wrote, in part:
“Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
Pope Eugene IV, (1388-1447 CE) wrote a Papal bull in 1441 CE titled Cantate Domino. One paragraph reads:
"It [the Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart 'into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."
In his general audience on November 30, Pope Benedict XVI said that whoever "seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent," will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith ("Nonbelievers Too Can Be Saved, Says Pope," Zenit, Nov. 30).
The Pope also quoted Augustine, one of the "fathers" of the Catholic Church, who claimed that even pagan Babylonians would be saved if "they have a spark of desire for the unknown, for the greatest, for the transcendent, for a genuine redemption."
The Scriptures clearly teach that there is salvation ONLY through Jesus Christ – Acts 4:12, 1Corinthinans 3:11, John 14:6; however, the scriptures also teach that the Lord will consider WHERE one was born and WHAT one knows. For those who come to KNOW the clear teaching of who Christ is and his claims; they will be held accountable for this. For those who do not come into contact with this knowledge; consider the following passages -
I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there. And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her. The LORD shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah – Psalms 87:4-6.
For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel – Romans 2:11-16.
Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? – Romans 2:26.
For us, (believers); we are also accountable for what we profess –
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God – Romans 2:28-29.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his – Romans 8:9.
www.dharmavision.com
Matthew 7:15-23 Specifically versee 21
Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
I lot of so-called christians need to wake up and realize it is repentance followed by belief in the son. Then continual repentenance (I did not say forgiveness for Christ work on the cross has already forgiven those sins we will comitt). Too many have fallen to the americanized belief that you can give God "lip service" one time claim only the Grace and never come face to face with their own wicked souls. I believe if a lot of Christians examined themselves they would see a lack of Good Fruit (Galatians 5:12) and a lack of continual repentance (Isaiah 30:12, 2 Cor 7:10, Revelation 2:4-5)
We should all continually test ourselves and see if we are or ever were in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5).
We are to be sanctified and made like Christ. Look and see how different Christ was from those around him, even those who believed in him, he was still so radical. Ephesians says to imitate Christ, Christ lived to serve the lord, his "food" was the work of God. What does that say to us?
Not all Christians believe that only Christians go to heaven. Many Christians are the antipathy of what Jesus taught, which was a ministry of inclusion not exclusion. No, Christianity is not an exclusive club. We can not judge who will and won't go to heaven...that is for God to judge. One of my daughter's most loving wonderful teachers was a black muslim woman. I don't believe this loving woman is condemned to hell. Many Christians will be shocked to arrive in Heaven and find that God loves all of his children regardless of the labels they bore on this earth.
This artcicle s lacking in enough information to make an intelligent determination as to what the Senator actually said.
The Catholic Church at Vatican II in the "Declaration on the relation of the Church to non-Christian religions (Nostra Aetate, 1965) stated:
"God made the whole human race to live over the face of the earth."
"The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these [non-Christian] religions."
"God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers..."
"...the [Roman Catholic] Church is the new People of God..."
"...the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation."
Nothing in the text below quoted from this article seems at odds with that:
But he also believes Jews and Muslims and non-believers who live moral lives are as much “children of God” as he is, according to The Associated Press.
As an example, he spoke about his late mother who was “not a believer.”
"[S]he was the kindest, most decent, generous person that I have ever known," Obama said, according to the Times. "I'm sure she is in heaven, even though she may not have subscribed to everything that I subscribe to."
I have lost all respect for Obama he is not a Christian. All Christians know that Jesus is the only way to God, they also know that Jesus did not die on the cross for His own sins, He was and is without sin. Jesus willingly died on the cross for the sins of the whole world, so that our sins could be removed as far from us as the East is from the West. There is only one way that anyone can come to Heaven that is thru the acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Lord and belief in the gospel (the death, burial, and resurrection) by the confession of your mouth. For it is written: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Rom 10:9. Furthermore, Jesus clearly tells us that he is the only way into Heaven for it is also written in the Gospel of John 14:6: “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” Furthermore Jesus tells us “If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.” Philip saith unto him, “Lord show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, “Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then , show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works sake.” Jesus also teaches us that He is the true vine; “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.” John 15:1-3. Salvation comes by the grace of God, not by works, simply living a moral life, and doing good deeds, will not get you into Heaven. And this grace of God comes thru the belief in your heart of the gospel of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom the world crucified, whom God raised from the dead, THIS IS THE STONE WHICH WAS SET AT NOUGHT OF YOU BUILDERS, WHICH IS BECOME THE HEAD OF THE CORNER. For it is written: “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4: 11-12
Its amazing what he would sell out to get a few Votes, sorry dude you just lost the last bit of respect that i had for you... If Oboma is a Follower of Christ, he should follow christ not the votes that he wants to get into office....
scitsonga;
"And yes, as hard as this is for you Christians to admit, white Christian Europeans engaged in acts of genocide against the indigenous peoples of the Americas and European Christians enslaved blacks. So, one could easily imagine why they would reject the white Christian's Jesus. Both blacks and Indians were vilified and regarded as godless heathens by white Christians. Many Christians did indeed attempt to convert the "heathens", I guess they were more compassionate than the ones that simply wanted to exterminate and enslave them."
I will take exception to your above generalization. Where is the basis for those statements? What, specifically, were these acts of genocide? Is it possible the Indian techniques of warfare earned them the title 'heathen"? In the era you are speaking of you also have to be careful about labeling all whites as Christians. There was a huge difference between acts of the Catholic Church and Protestants. Where do you suppose the secularists were during all these atrocities? Can you find it at all possible that the Christian Worldview actually prevented the genocide of the Indians and eventually helped free the slaves? Is it possible that some who called themselves "Christian" but acted otherwise were not truly Christian, but humanist instead?
scitsonga;
Looks like I missed out on the discussion today.
To answer your question about the Indians and Blacks; Start with Romans 2; So, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, instinctively do what the law demands, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts. Their consciences testify in support of this, and their competing thoughts either accuse or excuse them on the day when God judges what people have kept secret, according to my gospel through Christ Jesus.
Romans 2:14-16 (HCSB) However, scripture goes further to state that those that have rejected Jesus are condemned.
BTW; to truly accept Christ is not an act we cab do ourselves; it is the work of the Holy Spirit. We cannot be 'saved' due to fear of eternal damnation. This is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and the One You have sent—Jesus Christ. John 17:3 (HCSB)
scitsonga,
I also appreciate your honesty and candor; perhaps we'll chat again sometime, have a good one.
To Online4Him, As you have probably figured out, I am a skeptic, but I do appreciate your comments and I hope you have a good evening...........
monique68 "I mean no disrepect scitsonga, but it is hard for you to understand all of this because you don't seem to be a believer, but you sure are a seeker."
No disrespect taken, thank you for your curtious replies and I hope you have a good evening.
scitsonga,
I hope you do not mind me interjecting here with this post -
It seems that you are unaware of the process of justification, sanctification, and glorification in a believer’s life. The whole transformation begins with and ends with the PROMISES and POWER of God.
“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure – Philippians 2:13.”
“Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust – 2Peter 1:4.”
God justifies the believer as they place their trust in him; that is, the believer is no longer looked upon as a sinner, they have been adopted into the family of God. So, (in Christ) they stand as though they never sinned (Christ’s sinless life and propitiatory death takes the place of the sinner), that is, the believer’s standing or position before God (Justification). By nature we are still sinners, however, the Holy Spirit continues the life long process of sanctifying the characters of all believers, that is, he continues to transform and mold the believer into the character of Christ, and this is all done by faith (Sanctification). When Christ Jesus returns he will complete the transformation so that those who enter heaven will not possess the old nature (Glorification). With all that being said, there will be none of the old tendencies in those who have been redeemed or in heaven.
scitsonga says:
"Wouldn't that freewill have to be removed in order for man to conform to the "sinless" heaven
environment? What I am asking is this, when a person goes to heaven, even though they are "saved", wouldn't they have to have their personalities altered, because most everyone, including the "saved", have the basic charactersitics of human nature- greed, pride and selfishness. How would they get along in heaven if they stil have these tendencies if the freewill was not eliminated? "
The human characteristics that you mentioned: greed, pride, selfishness are all sin. There is no sin in Heaven because it's a holy place.
I mean no disrepect scitsonga, but it is hard for you to understand all of this because you don't seem to be a believer, but you sure are a seeker.
Uhoh...I think I opened another can of worms.....
Who says we don't have freewill in heaven? Remember, even the angels (who were created higher than man) have freewill.
monique68 "Nope, because you either chose to be there or you don't - that's freewill."
i don't beleive you answered my question. Let me ask it again:
Wouldn't that freewill have to be removed in order for man to conform to the "sinless" heaven
environment? What I am asking is this, when a person goes to heaven, even though they are "saved", wouldn't they have to have their personalities altered, because most everyone, including the "saved", have the basic charactersitics of human nature- greed, pride and selfishness. How would they get along in heaven if they stil have these tendencies if the freewill was not eliminated?
Nope, because you either chose to be there or you don't - that's freewill.
scitsonga - you may want to research the Bible - it may answer some of your questions.
You take care and God bless you in your search.
monique68 "Because God designed humans with freewill"
Wouldn't that freewill have to be removed in order for man to conform to the "sinless" heaven
environment?
star2 " You have no idea about what you are talking about."
And back at you, heaven may not, in fact, probably doesn't even exists....enjoy
Jane Dratz says it perfect in her article called "How to Share Your Faith Using 'I Am Legend' (www.christianpost.com):
Because God designed humans with freewill, the choice to love God or turn away from Him stands at the core of the human story. Choosing a path separated from God and His goodness leads down the road to sin and death - with devastating consequences woven throughout the fabric of human lives. Choosing the path of faith that Jesus laid out for us, leads down the road to a restored relationship with God.
Romans 3:23-25 put it this way:
For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. (NLT)
God bless all who read and can accept this.
1 Corinthians 2:9
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."
Heaven boring? You have no idea about what you are talking about.