The Church of Norway praised the recent decision by the Church of England to allow women bishops, as both sides of the vote remain deeply divided.
"The Church of England has taken a bold and mature action knowing well the immediate costs involved," the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway, which the majority of Norwegians are members of, said in a statement Thursday.
The General Synod of the Church of England voted Monday after a six-hour debate to support consecrating women as bishops. But it rejected safeguards that supporters of male-only priesthood had sought.
The Synod had already agreed to the ordination of women bishops in principle but was deciding on whether to confirm the process towards the first ordinations as well as possible concessions for church members and clergy who hold more traditional, orthodox views and cannot accept the ministry of women as bishops.
Some traditionalists argued that they are being discriminated against and have threatened to leave the church if safeguards are not put into place.
The Bishop of Ebbsfleet, the Rt. Rev. Andrew Burnham, said traditionalists are feeling "shipwrecked" and has asked the Pope and Catholic leaders in England to help him and his parishes defect to Rome, according to BBC News. The Roman Catholic Church does not ordain women.
Following the Synod decision, the Vatican condemned the Church of England and said it presents a "further obstacle to reconciliation" between the two major church bodies.
But backing the Church of England, the Church of Norway "warmly" welcomed the Synod decision to open the ministry to women bishops and further praised it as a "significant step" in the consolidation of the Anglican and Lutheran churches.
"Up until the present time," the Church of Norway noted, "the fact that the Church of England did not recognize the ministry of women bishops in the Nordic folk churches set unfortunate limits to the implementation of the Porvoo Common Statement" – an agreement made in 1992 between the British and Irish Anglican Churches and the Nordic and Baltic Lutheran Churches securing common membership and full inter-changeability of ordained clergy.
Women in the Church of England have been allowed to become priests since 1994, but they have not received the green light to become bishops in the church.
"The Church of Norway, having gone through a similar process some years ago, and having been much blessed by its fruits, shall accompany the Church of England, as a sister church in communion, with gratitude and with prayers of God’s blessing and guidance in the time to come," the statement added.
Affirming the role of women in leadership, the Church of Norway stressed, "The gender of ordained ministers cannot be a criterion of the church's apostolicity. On the contrary, the admittance of women to all levels of ordained ministry has contributed significantly to the full expression of God's mission in the world."
Monday's vote was not a final decision. The legislation will be debated at next year's Synod before being passed over to dioceses for approval.
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msn an tallguy:
Only God forgives sins not man, and only man can repent not God!! God does not sin man does. get it? You cannot be made right with God unless you repent and accept Jesus as your Lord. Amen and Amen. Now the Scriptures do tell of the Apostles given power to forgive or retain sins. There are no Apostles alive today!! (not that i am aware of.) The popes were not Apostles!!
You will notice you have to have the appointment by God and receive the Holy Ghost which none of the popes ever had!
John 20:21 "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."
The Roman Catholic church is a harlot, an imposter an usurper. Faking Authority and power from God , yet having none of his Works or Power nor Authority! But the works that have been handed down from them are mass slaughters of multitudes uncounted, worship of dead people and asking for intercession which none can give but Christ Jesus! Mass for payment of sins? Pergatory to suffer till temporal sins are Paid? Paying "Priests" to pray for sins of the dead? Believing on artifacts for payment of sins?? what abominations are these? Not from my God, but the god of the roman catholic church is the belly , and satan.
I have a gift from the Holy Spirit, i am a Truth keeper but all are who love the Lord in sincerety are. I have stood before the Throne of Christ and Worshipped him. A gift of God unto me. I will continue to stand against the liars and apostates and Glorify my Lord.
msnchris70, tallguy1000, the roman catholic church manipulates the Truth and turns it into lies for there gain, they love control, power and are very vain. They like to be popular like the Temple rulers in My Lord's day.
The Scriputures are clear,you can follow them in the Spirit OR you can appoint all you want to whatever post you like. But the Holy Spirit gives the gifts and these gifts include being an Apostle , Prophet , Healer, Teacher, Preacher, speaking in tongues , interpreting etc... No man can give the Holy Spirit to another, only Christ does. You really dont understand the Power of God. God appoints the Leadership and gifts not man.
1Corinthians 12:3 "I want you to know that no one who is led by God's Spirit can say "A curse on Jesus!" and no one can confess "Jesus is Lord," without being guided by the Holy Spirit.
1Co 12:4 There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit gives them.
1Co 12:5 There are different ways of serving, but the same Lord is served.
1Co 12:6 There are different abilities to perform service, but the same God gives ability to all for their particular service.
1Co 12:7 The Spirit's presence is shown in some way in each person for the good of all.
1Co 12:8 The Spirit gives one person a message full of wisdom, while to another person the same Spirit gives a message full of knowledge.
1Co 12:9 One and the same Spirit gives faith to one person, while to another person he gives the power to heal.
1Co 12:10 The Spirit gives one person the power to work miracles; to another, the gift of speaking God's message; and to yet another, the ability to tell the difference between gifts that come from the Spirit and those that do not. To one person he gives the ability to speak in strange tongues, and to another he gives the ability to explain what is said.
1Co 12:11 But it is one and the same Spirit who does all this; as he wishes, he gives a different gift to each person.
1Co 12:12 Christ is like a single body, which has many parts; it is still one body, even though it is made up of different parts."
1Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
That analogy misses the mark.
Well, you go ahead a call her what you want. You can call a fish an eagle but it still can't fly.
She's a bishop.
Shori is not a Bishop, she's just playing dress up in a denomination that is no longer Christian.
I'm cutting and pasting a comment here that I made in response to john14's post on another column.
You got half of your remark right, john14: You are no bishop. The head of the Episcopal Church, on the other hand, IS the main bishop of a major denomination. Your remark is as absurd as people who used to say, "Clinton is not my president," or ones who now say, "Bush is not my president." These people need to revisit their high school civics text book. Bush, unfortunately, IS my president. And Jefferts Schori (sp?) is the presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church. Look it up.
jr, in most SBC churches deacons are more like elders and by their position are given spiritual headship over members of their church, so for a woman to be a deacon in one of these churches would violate the Word of God because being a deacon in one of these churches would automatically give her spiritual headship over men. Now in churches where a deacon is purely a servant role I do not see a problem in a woman being a deacon since she will not have spiritual headship over men.
the other problem arises when the word used for meaning women and wife is the same word, again you have to read the passage content fully to understand which it is referring to
the bible does not allow women deacon's. The problem arises in the fact the word used to describe a leadership role in church and a regular servant. You must read the full content of the passge to discern which role is being talked about. Some people see the same word and automatically think they are the same.
fullgospel, I John 1:9 says if we confess our sins the Christ will forgive us of our sins and cleanse us all unrighteousness, where do you see anything about needing to go to a priest in that text. If you feel the need to go to a priest knock yourself out, I and many other Christians do not believe the Bible teaches that and we believe we can go directly to God through Christ and confess our sins because there is only one mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus. You are free to listen to the early church leaders and I on the other hand prefer to listen to God by His Holy Spirit through His God-breathed, inerrant, plenary Word.
he Bishop of Ebbsfleet, the Rt. Rev. Andrew Burnham, said traditionalists are feeling "shipwrecked" and has asked the Pope and Catholic leaders in England to help him and his parishes defect to Rome, according to BBC News. The Roman Catholic Church does not ordain women.
The reason the Catholic Church does not ordain women is that the leaders DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY. IT'S NOT THEIR CHURCH. It's Jesus' Church and they, as the prime minister and the stewards of Jesus' Church, cannot override the example that Jesus provided.
Believer, I'm sorry to hear you feel that following Scripture is a tradition, while I commend TallGuy1000 for trying to provide the Scriptural support for what has been done in Jesus' Church for 2,000 years.
Believer, I'm sure you're aware of the writings of the earliest Christians (200 years before we even had a Bible)...
The Didache
"Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lordâ
tallguy, please don't push the traditions of your church onto all believers, if you choose to confees your sins to a priest that's fine. As for many of us we choose to hold on to I John 1:9 which in no way says I need to confess my sins to a priest or to anyone else but God. Because I have been washed in the shed blood of Christ I have direct access to the throne of God where I can lay all my prayer concerns as well as all my sins and He in turn will answer my prayers and wash me white as snow.
Hey Canadian, trust Chris spend that $10.00 and buy a copy of the Catechism, that way you can check things out before you refute. I say this out of kindness, it will settle any misconceptions you may have about the Catholic Church.
Why do we confess our sins to a priest and not to God directly? (Jn 20:21-23)
21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.
22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost.
23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained: Anyone who rejects this passage is surely rejecting the power of Jesus to forgive sins, which here is delegated to the Church. When we come to a priest we come to one who has been empowered to forgive sins through the anointing given by the Lord to his apostles and to the Church. "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." As we come to the priest to confess our sins, we are being humble before God and we come with a contrite heart just as the Lord wants, we are also being witnesses of the Word of Christ by accepting it, we give Glory to God the Father for accepting the forgiveness of the Son through the Church and we give Glory to the Holy Spirit who is always present in the Sacraments of the Church.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
The Catholic Church is the Church of the Way (several references in Acts), the Church of the truth and the Church of the Life. The Way and the Truth we find in her teachings, the Life we find in the sacraments.
In Christ...<><..
CanadianChristian,
Do you know what the word Relativism means? I have no problem that you disagree with our interpretation of Scripture this is why you lot sepparated from us.
I haven't seen in any of your posts where you have claimed any education in theology or scripture, so if you do have a Bachelors, Masters in theology then forgive me. I'm just trying to differentiate you from the uneducated lot who claim infallibility with little more insight than just picking up the Bible and interpreting for themselves.
I think the Bereans would interpret scripture a little more like how I do, than you do. The Bereans did not have use of the New Testament as we have it today and they only interpreted Scripture from an Old Testament point of view and the limited letters they received from Paul. Christians of the 1st century didn't just use scripture alone to validate teachings, but they also used tradition and the teaching authority of the Apostles. This is historically verified.
Do you fear reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church? It seems you do. You hide behind your interpretation of scripture and your own unfounded predjudices. In the Catechism you will find that no where do we claim any divine status for Mary, or worship objects, or do any of the things you say. You don't want to read it because it will blow your house of cards down.
So you don't like the fact that people can go to a Priest for absolution? I don't personally care. What it does show is you ignore the fact that Jesus explicitly gave the power to forgive sins to the Apostles and we also see in Scripture how when a presbyter or priest does the annointing of sick that your sins are also forgiven. The priest and presbyter are only vessels that Christ uses to forgive sins through His power not theirs. He gave these Priests His power to forgive sins or retain sins and bind and loose authority. We also know historically that there was continuity from the 1st century on with people going to confession to a priest.
You offer only your interpretation of the Word, which isn't that unique or special. Anyone can do that. I offer you our interpretation including what historic christianity did and somehow you think you are right 2000 year after the fact. Do you also play the lottery?
msn70,
I'm glad you did'nt take offence,I am not uneducated as you put it-there have been many catholics posting on this site who truly believe the things I mentioned and many other believers have corrected/rebuked them on it.I don't need the catechism of the catholic church to read, I have my bible-GOD'S WORD,not man's.Do you disagree with testing like the Berean's did? If you do, you do so at your own risk.My "strong bias" as you put it is the fact that I could walk into any catholic church at certain times and have a "man" obsolve me of my sin's-rubbish,arrogant to think a mere fellow sinner could forgive me of my sin's.I will take the LORD JESUS CHRIST and HIS HOLY WORD over anything man can say or do any day.I pray you will do some solid biblical research on these matters IN THE BIBLE, IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD AND MASTER JESUS CHRIST, AMEN.
JHS,
What I said was that there will be no more Protestants referring to the mainline divisions, but there will always be some independant Christians. I agree with that. We Catholics have learned a lot about fellowship from our Evangelicals friends about marketing a church about prayer teams and how to have an effective and fun bible study. Most of these evangelicals have become Catholics, just like I did.
Thanks for your comment.
Canadian Christian,
You are not harsh and I didn't take offense to what you said. You just said what most uneducated people say. Go buy yourself the Catechism of the Catholic Church which is our OFFICIAL beliefs and find anything you claimed. You won't. We don't believe mary is divine, or worship objects or any the other stuff either. You have a strong bias that can easilly be overcome with some research.
JHS, there were no women ordained to the office of deacon. Sometimes the greek is applied to those that serve the parish who are women are deaconesses, but this is not an official position but rather a function of how they supported their husbands who were deacons is the historical record and is supported by scripture.
John 14:6
Yes, there are some Liberal whack jobs in our church but you can find the more orthodox parishes where there is a larger group of Republicans. Whereever a Catholic parish is in a predominently republican area, then it will be very orthodox and more than like their Priests will be very young. The Young ones are all very orthodox. Even the more Liberal parishes are starting to move towards the center of orthodoxy which is great news.
Just tell me what area you live in and I'll find you a great parish, ok?
JHS, Show us all where in the bible it say's women can be deacons-not your interpretation of it,but the actual exact words if you please.
msn70, you don't do the church body any good by revelling in the fallen who have been caught up in deception and apostasy,your celebration is misplaced and dubious at best because no "true born-again bible believing christian" would ever join the catholic church. The catholic church while clinging to some scriptural truths, is in grave error on doctrinal issues;i.e, divinity of mary,worshipping of idols,man as mediator between us and GOD(CHRIST ALONE IS THE ONLY MEDIATOR)not another sinner,etc....any christians who go to the catholic church will simply be going to another misguided denomination, I would pray they do not.Sorry if my harshness offends any-but I will always stick with the TRUTH OF SCRIPTURE and not a man-made orginizations rituals and traditions.I urge every true believer to compare what you hear from any person(myself included) or church/denomination with the WORD OF GOD,test everything like the Berean's did you can't go wrong that way. BLESSINGS IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD AND MASTER JESUS CHRIST
msnchris70
I don't agree with you about "In the next 100 years, there be no more Protestants left " There will always be people who will want to have a free church, evangelicals etc. There is nothing wrong with that either. The catholic church has much to learn from these, however there will be stong pocket of evangelicals all over the world.
msnchris70--
The problem with your theory is, there is a huge liberal-activist problem within the Catholic Church, especially in America. In checking out the RCIA for my local parish, I have found that there are uber-liberal parishes all over America. So my question would be, even if I wanted to join the Catholic Church, especially in America, how do I find a traditional, conservative priest and parish! Because I have definitely found hardcore liberal attitudes and activists within the church here.
JHS--
I agree. I have no problem with women deacons since this is found in the Bible, but there is no authority for women to be pastors, reverends, ministers, priests and certainly not bishops.
No, these "Lutherans" are not representative of all Lutherans. For instance, the ELCA in America is the largest Lutheran denomination, but it was made up of a merger of a number of breakaway, liberal denominations, that happened back in the 1970's and 1980's.
The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is a much more conservative denomination (although recent leadership changes since the turn of this century have caused some serious anxiety about the future direction of the body) and do not support women clergy, gay marriage, or anything like what the ELCA or the liberal European Lutheran churches support. The LCMS is not a member of the National Council of Churches (the churches that are nothing but fronts for left-wing activism), but the ELCA *is* a member of the NCC.
Praise God!!! Why do I say that? Well, The Lutherans are weakening on this issue like the Anglicans, like the Methodists, like the Presbyterians. Liberal Christianity is dying out FAST and I thank God for that and making women ordained just puts bigger holes in their sinking ships.
Millions of conservative bible Christians from these denominations are finally come home to strength of the Catholic Church because they see that Christ did found a Church that will not sway to public opinion. Soon we will see millions more from these denominations come home to Catholic Church who hold to scriptural truth.
In the next 100 years, there be no more Protestants left and the Catholic Church will be left to fight against these Secular liberals who pervert the Gospel and relativize every definition we've ever held as sacred like; marriage, life and who Christ is.
The Catholic Church will survive and be strengthened by all these wonderful conservative Christians who are coming home. They will bring about a great revival of bible study to the Catholic Church, which has been lagging. Let us all proclaim the Truth who is Jesus Christ and stand firm with our Scripture based values.
I can see women deacons in the bible, and I do not understand why churches don't allow women deacons, however women bishop's I can understand why they don't.
PCA, get ready. You chance will come.