Christian metalcore band Haste the Day has asked guitarist Jason Barnes to step down after months of spiritual searching by their close friend concluded with his loss of faith in God.
“This is going to come as a shock to many of you,” the group wrote to fans in their official MySpace page Friday. “After much prayer and thought given to the matter, we asked Jason Barnes to step down from his involvement with Haste the Day.”
In their statement, the seven-year-old band from Indianapolis explained that Barnes had been “searching and searching for real meaning in his existence.”
“After several months of reading literature and talking with friends, Jason had determined that he felt there was no God and certainly no Jesus,” the group revealed.
“We as a band do not have problem with those that do not believe in Jesus, nor do we cast judgement (sic) on those that do not believe in Jesus,” the band continued. “We just want to love on people like Jesus would and hopefully share a little bit about what he's done and doing in our lives.”
However, as the group identifies itself as a Christian band, the remaining band members felt they could not have someone “who didn’t agree with the band’s foundational drive,” even though Barnes was “one of our closest friends.”
Furthermore, the band acknowledged how the difference in belief had created a “tear” in their relationship with Barnes, which they said they are all working on mending.
“Jason's new found disbelief in what the rest of us have committed our lives to began to cause disunity within the band and as a result, we prayed and talked about it and felt like God was saying it wasn't time for Haste the Day to come to an end. [Thus], we asked Jason to leave.”
The now four-member band said they are not looking to replace Barnes with a new guitar player. Their friend, Dave Krysl, will instead be their full-time touring guitar player.
The surprising announcement comes three months before the Oct. 14 release of the band’s next album, “Dreamer,” and only two weeks before the Aug. 1 release of a new song from the album.
Known for its spiritual metal sound, which attracted fans nationwide, Haste the Day has produced albums containing Christian-oriented messages, with lyrics that are often introspective rather than “preachy.”
Its last album, Pressure the Hinges, debuted last year at number 89 on the U.S. Billboard 200, selling about 10,000 copies in its first week.
The band is currently signed with Christian record label Solid State Records.
RSS
I have always had a problem when people refer to a form of music as "of the devil". Now don't get me wrong I am not passing judgment on any of you but my inquisitive nature is kicking in. When someone says that anything is "of the devil" I generally it seems to infer that Satan made something horrible to trick us with. Now I know Satan is a deceiver of men but he is limited in power and most certainly not a creator of anything of substance. The best he can ope to do assume that it means the devil is use something of God's creation in an improper or unintended way. Regardless of the form music is a art form that must be learned and refined. All the pieces that make "music" were created by God and were intended for us to use. Now Satan has perverted that and ruined some forms I agree but ultimately the forms belong to God.
I also have wondered about the statement "we shouldnt be copying the world" in regards to the different forms of music. Again it all belongs to God but I think the issue here is that as artists Christians stopped taking the lead long long ago and have left creativity and "pushing the boundaries" up to secular individuals. Christians for far to long have taken second best table scraps on that front.
I would venture to say also that most Christian artists don't play a style of music to be "like the world" but simply play what they know and what they like
Anyway I know I am late to this discussion but those are my thoughts
Star2,
I mostly agree. Some genres/styles seem worse than others for communicating the gospel. Secular metal thrash music seems to emphasize the disharmony, beat, + screaming; it's hard to hear Christian lyrics through the din. For most music, it's the lyrics that make it Christian + edifying.
We will keep our house + let a seminary family live there: not enough housing on campus for the # attending. As we have been blessed, we will be a blessing to others.
My PhD is in Christian Ed, focusing on leadership. Specifically, the pastor's role in managing church conflict. Sadly, no shortage of cases to research!
mathetes - You said that you were working on your dissertation. What kind of degree are you seeking and what is your dissertation on?
mathetes - Thanks for responding. I agree with you to a degree but I think some forms of music is not of God, is disrespectful to God, and is of the devil, such as heavy metal for example.
Music comes from the heart. What kind of heart would produce music like that?
I personally think there is something wrong when a person copies the ways of the world when they become born-again. We are suppose to leave the gods of the world behind not keep them on our altar to worship along with our worship of God. To do so only makes us blind to the truth (Hosea 7:8-9). In my opinion, many Christians worship the demon inspired music they grew up on and that is what drives them to form many of these Christian Rock Bands and what partially drives listeners to want to listen to them. If they don't worship that style of music then they are, at the very least, in bondage to it.
I grew up in the 50's and 60's. If I should overhear someone play the secular music from back then I still like it but I have no interest and desire to entertain myself with that kind of music.
Maybe I am wrong about it but maybe I am not. I am teachable and I will allow God to correct my thinking about the matter of 'Christian' Rock Music.
Star2,
It looks like most everything has been said and the thread is dying out. Only thing I would say is I believe there's room in the Kingdom for music from many cultures. When I led worship in a Presb church, we had many members from other denoms who worshipped with various musical styles, while one family wanted to use the Psalter only. In a multicultural Bapt church we blended southern gospel, black gospel, and contemporary worship music - not easy, but probably what it will sound like in heaven times 1000.
As for personal listening, each Christian should follow his/her own convictions. As Paul wrote in Rom. 14:22, "The faith that you have, have as your own conviction before God. Blessed are those who have no reason to condemn themselves because of what they approve."
Prophet,
You will be missed. I've often been thankful for you + will continue to pray God blesses you + your family as you serve Him.
God bless you Prophet. I understand. I often wondered about you married guys about the amount of time you all spent on CP. I am single and it doesn't much matter. I'll email you. Hope you will answer my email I sent to you the other night. Would like to know about your accident.
prophet, saw your post to star2, just know we'll miss you but I for one totally understand and respect your need to be more with your family and pray nothing but God's will and blessing for you and them. Plus kids only grow up once and you want to miss as little of that as possible, be blessed as you serve Him, believer
Star,
You know I've always respected you. And I know you have a personal conviction about that type of music. I respect that as well. And if we were friends who lived in the same town and fellowshipped together, you can rest assured that I would not listen to that type of music around you because it bothers you. As Paul exhorts us to do.
I hope to be able to email each other yet. I know I've been kind of laxed in that area. Things have been hectic around here. But I am taking a sabbatical from CP indefinitely. In talking to God tonight, I felt that it was taking too much from my family and time with Him. I know you understand. And I am so thankful that God is blessing you and ministering to you as well. I pray His peace, wisdom, and love for you always. Keep in touch.
Prophet - That is good that God is working in your life. May He continue to do so. May God bless you.
I listened to some of the Christian Rock bands you listen to on youtube. Some are kind of mild compared to the metal band and I can see how God could use it in your life. But I still maintain that Christain Rock,on the order of metal, is not of God. I know you don't agree. We are each entitled to our opinions and the reasons for them.
star,
I've done that countless times too. It's okay. We got it figured out. The point I was making with that post, is that I've been listening to this music my whole life, and my relationship with God has grown daily, and He has moved and blessed me in all the areas of my life. But that is not taking away from having a strong prayer life and studying His Word consistently. But music has always been an encouraging source, and God moves in songs that glorify him.
Prophet: "That music you listen to did not bring healing and deliverance to your family."
I didn't say that."
I went back and reread your post and I agree with you.
And....as I've said already, God used that music to encourage me during the hard times, much like He did with David.
"That music you listen to did not bring healing and deliverance to your family."
I didn't say that. But it did strengthen my relationship with God, and boosted my faith in Him, which in turn, allowed God to work as He wills in my life. I hope that you do not the grave sin of attributing the work of the Holy Spirit in my life to Satan. Some would call that the impardonable sin. Be very careful of the words you speak.
I have a friend who thinks that television is of the devil, no matter what you watch on it. His personal conviction is that satan works through the tv to destroy us. I could bring him in here to debate with you about television and that anyone who watches any amount of tv (including your 1/2 hour a day) is allowing satan to havd a foothold.
But he, unlike you, knows that it is a personal conviction. And he doesn't argue with me that I am a sinner for watching tv (though, like you, I only watch educational or sports tv). We are good friends.
I just met a person at work who doesn't have the internet for the same reason. If he could talk to you, he'd probably give you all sorts of statistics to back his beliefs, but you would still continue to come to CP. Because you would call that his opinion. And he would still say that you need to repent.
Is he correct?
Prophet - That music you listen to did not bring healing and deliverance to your family.
I do not dispute the facts of your experiences. I disagree with you on who the author of your experience is. I still maintain that Satan is the author of your 'positive' experiences when you listen to Rock music.
Prophet - Only God can change your mind, I can't. Why continue a discussion with you when you appear to be closed minded at this point and I appear to have no annointing? It is a waste of my time. If you think you won then go ahead and think that. You have won only in the sense I cannot change your mind. But you have not won over truth.
I gave you facts about how the music has affect me, my life, and my family's life. That's not opinion. That's fact. Should I lie that you may win the debate? How ever music affects you is a fact. I will not dispute how that music affects you. How music affects me is a fact, but yet you want to dispute that.
Prophet - Why continue on with a discussion when you are set in your thinking and it appears at the moment that I have no annointing in this subject area. It is a waste of time. Plus, anything I write you misread it and think I said something other than what I meant or you put words in my 'mouth' by saying I said something I didn't say. You interpret my words according to your own presuppositions.
I am not going to change your mind and you will not change mine.
You said that there are some issues in your life that 3 months ago you were perfectly fine with but now you are not because God is dealing with you about them. In time maybe God will do the same with the kind of music styles you listen to. It may be OK now but it might not be OK in the future. He has done it with others, and though I can't speak for Him, He might do it to you too.
Prophet - By 'convictions' I mean what you believe to be true.
Prophet - You are doing the same thing. You merely give an opinion that has no more fact than your personal opinion which is contaminated by sin and lack of knowledge as to the source of your experiences. You don't understand the Word of God, you do not understand demonolgy, you have no spiritual discernment, and you don't know how to properly apply the Word of God. FYI, not everything you hear in prayer comes from God. If something is an idol in your life then God says that when you pray He will allow the idols of your heart to answer you. I believe that is who you are hearing from because in this area of your life, rock music, it is an idol in your life. The same goes for your tattoos.
LOL. It's not convictions. It's proof. And if your way of dealing with proof that your opinions err is by leaving, then so be it. But all I've gotten from this whole debate is that you are making your personal convictions law. And that is not right. But I do appreciate that you've ceded the discussion.
believer
star2 said "He will move on people if that is what He wants to do. But that in no way gives His stamp of approval to everything we do."
Just because God is moving on people in Church for salvation, healing, deliverance, repentance, and etc doesn't mean He approves of the music in the Church. Those things come about because of the preaching of the Word not the music. God will move on people when He wants too.
Prophet - I will not continue to discuss the issue with you. You will either stand or fall on your convictions before God as well as me, believer, wbmoore, and everyone else.
believer - In my posts when I referred to Chritian Rock I was referring to heavy metal and the like. I was not focused on lighter forms of Rock like some of the Christian Rock players play. If you took the percussion section out and played the music just with a simple non-electric guitar you would not consider it Rock.
This is how I respond to 'Christian Rock'
Hard Rock (heavy metal and the like that has a singer who screams like a demonic, there is no melody, the electric guitar and drums are exceptionally loud, and etc): Pure repulsiveness.
Medium Rock (Singer sings normal,melody is good, but the electric guitars and drum beats are exceptionally loud): sends my spirit into turmoil to the point I cannot listen to the lyrics and have to leave.
Light Rock (sings normal to a pleasant melody but has extenuated drums): Bothersome but I can listen for a short while before the loud drum beats over powers everything and I start becoming tormented in my mind.
That may be true. But I know a LOT about the power of God and the victory that He gives me over demons and the spiritual darkness.
But that's not the point. The point is that all the negative stuff you claim that Christian rock does to a Christian doesn't happen to me. And I'm sure there are countless others who have the same testimony. I've been listening to it all my life. So far, my minstry has grown. My relationship with God has grown. My passion for truth and holiness has grown. He has healed my wife, son, and daughter miraculously over the years. And during the tough spiritual battles that I've had, do you want to know the one gift that God gave me that helped keep me strong and focused on Him? The music I listen to.
So, you can spout all the scientific studies about this and that, but I will always have the truth. And you have yet to give me any kind of proof that what you claim is true. Because I listen to that "devil music" and it draws me closer to God. Which goes against all that you claim. Can you please argue that?
believer - When listening to different forms of rock music I found that initailly I was repulsed by it. Just a few seconds of it and I turned it off. As I forced myself to listen to it, over time, even though I didn't like it and would certainly never choose to listen to it, I became numb to the repulsiveness of the music. I believe those who 'like' that stuff at first in their early life were the same way. Do something long enough and Satan will over take you in it, even to the point where you 'like' it and are drawn,and addicted to it.
I rather doubt that your Church has a heavy metal band do the Sunday morning special before the sermon is preached. Some Churches do play music that uses electric guitars, and has drummers that hit their drums so hard as if they have hatred in their heart. I guess some call that Christian Rock. Maybe your Church does, mine does not; all we have is a piano player. I go to a small Church. I did visit a Church once that had music like that. The singers were all mesmerized by the music they were singing. I got up and walked out it was so horrible and wondered why they had no discerment about how they played music and where was God in all of it. The preacher was good but the music stunk. I prayed for the music they sung and the drummer because he was especially bad and God changed them especially the drummer and there music became a lot better. I visited them one more time. Probably very few come to Christ through the music but I have known one who did by hearing the song "It was for your tears I died" played in a non-rock way.
People come to Christ at hearing the gospel preached not through music though God can use it. God will do what He wants to do and even though there are aspects in our worship before Him that is unacceptable to Him He will move on people if that is what He wants to do. But that in no way gives His stamp of approval to everything we do.
Prophet - How little you know about demonology.
star,
You said "Satan can control thoughts, emotions, and bodily functions." No. Satan can only input thoughts into our head, but he can't control how I deal with them. And he certainly cannot read my mind. He cannot control my emotions, only I can. And though he can have an affect on our body, it's only by our permission that he does. The only power satan has is what we give him. And when I listen to my music on my ipod, it takes away all his power over me.
As Jesus said when the Pharisees accused him of working miracles in the name of Satan....a housed divided against itself will not stand.
To think that Satan will allow me to have a postive effect from music that results in a stronger relationship with God, and a more determined attitude to tear down the kingdom of darkness, in order to inslave me is ludicrous. Satan would be shooting himself in the head. He doesn't want me having a deeper relationship with God, and definitely doesn't want me desiring to come against the gates of hell.
But those are the very things that happen when I (as well as millions of other Christians) listen to Christian music of any form. I'm not sure where you're getting your opinions (which is simply what they are) on Christian rock, but maybe you should check your sources.
believer - It is an undeniable fact that rock (heavy metal and the like) music results in nothing but negative effects on plant and animal life. In humans, research has shown that it produces negative effects but it can produce 'positive' effects as well from those who 'like' that kind of music. It was found that voodoo worshippers experience a 'positive' effect when they did a ritural dance to voodoo drum beats.This 'positive' effect, which they described as a 'clean' feeling, came from the 'spirits' they worshipped.
Unlike plants and animals Man is a spirit being that was created to worship God. Since there is a spiritual component to our nature, and since Satan wants man to do that which is unpleasing to God, I believe that the interest in and 'positive' effects that rock has on the listeners who have come to like rock music is from the devil. Satan can control thoughts, emotions, and bodily functions. Unfortunately I know this from personal experience. I believe that he controls these aspects in a 'positive' way in order to enslave people to that ungodly music.
star2, by umbrella I mean putting all "Christian Rock" in one category as you seemed to have done.
star2, to be honest I personally find a lot of classical music to be very dry, I prefer music that is powerful in both its message and presentation. There is much music that does that in both the secular and Christian arena. In my churches I experince both the traditional and contemporary hymns as well as choruses. Usually the messages of the music is powerful and biblically sound, but in many cases the presentation is often found lacking. Either the congregation or the person(s) singing appear not to believe in what they are singing and therfore their presentation has no power. But when there is both power in the message of the song and the presentation of the music not only do I not care what the style of music is but I also believe it brings glory to God. And to be honest star2 I have neither the ability or the time to sit there and determine what formula it fits with regards to the data you have shared with us on this matter. If you have that ability and desire that's great, but in all honesty most Christians even to include those leading and providing the music in most of my churches do not. Their desire is to sing music that they believe glorifies God and will encourage the congregation to freely enter into worship along with them. But yet I'm almost certain they are violating some of the standards you have shared with us in your many posts and yet people are getting saved and lives are being changed and people are experiencing the presence of God in their worship services. That's why I would invite you to consider if your umbrella is to big in this issue.
By the way, star. I took your advice. I asked God what kind of music He likes. He said anything that glorifies Him. So I asked Him if what I listen to pleases him, and he said "yes".
For those who may have missed my earlier post, or may have chosen to ignor it, I will repost it again. This is the effect that Christian Rock has on me, as well as millions of other Christians around the world:
"Spiritual Effects of Christian rock on the body:
The spirit is blessed and uplifted and fed as it worships God. In turn, the body is blessed and prospers. Depression is gone. Anger is gone. Peace and joy is restored, bringing life to a dying body."
believer - I am the one who gave you a 'thumbs down' to your most recent post out of a knee-jerk reaction. I am sorry, I should have not done that. Your questions are good and worth knowing the answer to.
believer - Ask God what kind of music He accepts.
believer
'Good' music would be music that is pleasant to the listener.
Have you ever heard a song played where the performer played a wrong note in the musical piece? What was your response to it? Not a good one I am sure.
How about someone who sang a song but was off key? Did you just want them to shut up?
Music is basically made up of melody, harmony, rhythm, pitch, and intensity. There are certain priciples in each of these categories that must be observed in order to produce what is classified as 'good' music. 'Bad' music would be music that violates all these principles for writing good music.
Rock music (heavy metal and the like) violates all the principles for writing 'good' music.
Classical music observes all these principles for writing 'good' music.
Researchers have found that classical, semi-classical, and devotional music produced positive effects on all forms of life. They have found that rock music music has produced negative effects on all forms of life that included stunted growth, brain damage, chromosomal damage, and death. Music that has violated one principle for writing good music produced some negative effect.
I refer you to the following posts:
Research Findings on the Effects of Music on Plants, Animals, Humans (6 parts)
Thu Jul 31,2008 4:21am
Rock Music Highs (2 parts)
Thur Jul 31,2008 5:18pm
Frequency Effects on the Body (2 parts)
Thur Jul 31,2008 8:23pm
The information I used in my posts regarding music and its effects came from
"Christian" Rock Music, Christian or Satanic?
http://www.av1611.org/crock/crock1.html
How Music Affects Your Kids..., What Parents Need to know
http://www.vanillafudge.com/link_backups/music2.htm
"What's Wrong With Christian Rock" by Jeff Godwin
http://www.amazon.com/Whats-Wrong-Christian-Rock-Godwin/dp/0937958360/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217053636&sr=1-1
I would encourage you to read the on-line articles for they have a lot of information that I did not mention in my posts that I think would be useful.
star2, so far you've said that for the most part only classical music is approved by God and yet in most hymnals the only classical piece of Christian music is "Joyful, Joyful We Adore Thee" by Beethoven. So maybe you need to define or share with us what other hymns and songs you believe are approved by God? For instance is Southern Gospel or Black Gospel approved by God? Plus you asked one person what kind of Christian Rock they listened to, so is there any Christian Rock that God would approve of?
wbmoore - You don't know what you are talking about when it comes to the devil and how he works.
Star2 (5)
"God's Word tells us to not be conformed to the world (Romans 12:2) but to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29). Our lives are to reflect Jesus Christ not the secular rock stars of our culture."
"__Christian rock singers look no different than secular rock singers."
A Christian computer programmer looks no different than a secular computer programmer. This is not a good argument.
"I believe that if God gives a Christian a song it will not follow after the patterns and styles of the world."
That is your belief. I think it's a weak argument, since we have nothing in the Bible that tells us what godly music sounds like.
I will not respond further to this thread. The subject is not that important to me. It is obvious you will not change my mind and I will not change yours. I've spent entirely too much time on this thread already and have only done so because I care about you and your opinion.
Star2 (4)
"Bad Music - violates all the laws of melody, harmony, rhythm, pitch, and intensity. Good Music - obeys all the laws of melody, harmony, rhythm, pitch and intensity."
But you see, you are arbitrarily setting (or agreeing with what someone else set) these rules. Just because someone does something that seems out of the ordinary does not make it bad. It simply makes it out of the ordinary (of course, I am not speaking about things the Bible speaks to directly).
If I say that red, black, and grey are bad colors because they depress people or excite them to lust. Then that is my arbitrarily setting the rules based on subjective thought, not the word of God.
"Adding clean water to dirty water will not make the dirty water clean."
Actually, if you add enough clean water, the parts per million will be so miniscule as to be unmeasurable. Additionally, you CAN clean the dirty water by changing it (through adding chemicals). This is what is done to rock music. By adding Christian lyrics, they change the music to praise God.
"Adding godly lyrics to profane music will not make the profane music godly"
I disagree. Adding Christ to the cross made it godly. Adding Christian lyrics that praise God to rock music makes it godly.
"Job 14:4 - "Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one."
But God can make clean that which was unclean.
Acts 10: 15 The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."
"God is Holy. The Word of God say that we are to be holy or we will not see God (Heb 12:14). God will not receive something that is not holy. Thus, He will not receive a song that is unholy whether that part is the music or the lyrics."
I still hold that using Christian lyrics DOES make it holy. It sets it apart for use by God.
" Sometimes they would sing African gospel songs in their native language. I didn't recognize the music and certaintly didn't understand the language but it was very beautiful and I could feel joy from their music. The music followed all the laws of good musical composition."
Again, this is an arbitrary set of rules. You liked the music. But it would have been as godly if the music had been in a style you did not like.
"No one surrendered to his new nature is going to produce something that looks, acts, and thinks like the world."
There are churches in strip malls, others in schools, etc. But these places become holy when used for God's purpose. In the same way that there are buildings of the world that look like Christian churches. And Christian churches that look like buildings of the Lord.
Christians make many of the same things as non-Christians, so your logic does not hold up. Paul created tents, just like the world did. But He praised God and taught about God. Christian rock music praises God and teaches about God.
Star2 (3)
"In your argument you are substituting music for an instrument. An instrument is an object and is neither good nor bad. How a person makes music with it will determine whether the music is good or bad._Demon inspired music does not bring glory to God."
So then how is it that Christian rock music is doing exactly that? The artists sing praise to God, glorify God.
How is it this music, that is supposed to be from the devil, be praising and glorifying God? Jesus said the same thing when they accused Him of being from the devil.
Lk 17:17-18
17Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them: "Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall. 18If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebub
"God told the Israelites to destroy everything from the nations that He gave them victory over and to take nothing from them. That would include their music too."
But God did not tell them to destroy everything taken from Egypt, where God had just done ten major miracles to show their gods were not gods. Instead, He used the things brought from there to build the things for His tabernacle.
" A Christian should never take demon inspired music and use it for 'God's glory'. "
What better way to slap the devil in the face than to take something that was used by him, change it, and use it to glorify God? This is what God had the Israelites do with the things of Egypt.
I wrote: "you are right in that the words and the music need to line up to be received as love. However, just as we all have different 'love languages', way we perceive love (some prefer words, some hugs, some gifts, some service), so too do we all have different music languages."_
You responded:
"I am not talking about love. I am talking about whether a song that has lyrics and music is godly or not."
You missed my point. I was not speaking about love so much as how we perceive things. You can speak German to me and I will not understand. If you use the German accent and use English words, I will understand. Some people, who grew up hearing that accent, will love what they hear.
This is the case for me and Spanish. I grew up hearing Spanish, and English with a Mexican accent. I ADORE that cadence, that accent. Others find it distasteful, or out right annoying.
Music is perceived in the same way. Some people ADORE rock, others find it distasteful or hate it outright. Some can use it to praise and glorify God.
Star2 (2)
I wrote: "What you and I consider to be pleasant or beautiful is different. Therefore, when we do things to glorify God, they will have a different look, feel, sound, to them. The same is true of music."__
And you responded:
"You are right here. However, if a song is off pitch, full of dissonates and it still is 'pleasant' to the listener then I would say that the pleasant feeling is of the devil. "
Again, this is your opinion. Unless God speaks to me directly about it, I will not go further than what the Bible says. And interestingly, the Bible is silent on this issue.
I wrote: "We have no Biblical evidence of what makes a melody godly."_
"True, but we can know what makes melody godly by applying the nature of God to the music produced.._Do you really believe that music that originates from God would produce negative effects on all forms of life? Do you think that God would produce music that results in stunted growth, brain damage, and even death?"
Just because some plants were adversely affected does not mean it was due to the music itself. We do not know what the factors were in the study you referenced. However, we DO know that some people are uplifted from listening to rock music. Granted, it may be that this is due to the devil's influence in some cases, but there is no evidence that this is the reason in any of the subjects and the Bible is silent on the issue.
I wrote: "What we DO have is the examples of something, or someone, being set-aside for the God."__
"Explain."
The items brought out of Egypt were used for God's purpose to make the things for the tabernacle, altar, etc. Yes, they were changed to make those items, but so too is Christian rock changed to praise God.
Christ let a man who was doing things in his name to continue to do so, even though John thought he was not a believer.
Mk 9:38-40
38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." 39 "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us.
There are people who are dedicated to God who are effective for Christ and listen to Rock music.
"Jubal was the father of the harp and flute. These again are objects. How the harp and flute were played will make what comes from it either good or bad."
But using your logic, that rock music comes from voodoo music, we can not continue to use flutes and harps, at a minimum. To do so would be wrong.
"The music from voodoo cultures were inspired by Satan."
So were the people who have been saved out of voodoo. They have been changed. And although you do not agree, Christian rock music is changed from secular/satanic rock music. It is dedicated to God; it praises God.
star2 (1)
"When God sent the Israelites to take the land that He had given them He told them to destroy everything in the cities (Deu 7:1-5,25-26). That included all the people, animals, graven images, objects, groves, and etc. He told them to not take anything from them."
Yes, but He did not say that about the things taken from Egypt. These were things they were familiar with, and would be used for God's purposes. God uses things that appear like things from the devil but are dedicated to Him and His purposes.
"Instruments and music are neutral and can be used to bless or not, depending on purpose."_
I realize there are studies that show negative effects of certain music. However, there are also studies that show people find different types of music appealing and relaxing.
For example, http://cognitive-psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/psychology_of_heavy_metal_music
"A study of more than 1,000 gifted students aged 11-18 found that heavy metal music is used for cathartic release and to dissipate negative emotions, particularly among those with low self-esteem."
And
"Some researchers have even found that subjects who were angry to begin with become happier, calmer and more relaxed after listening to heavy metal when it is their preferred musical genre."
And
"a study of students with psychiatric disorders who were also heavy metal fans actually showed improved mood after listening to their music of choice. Other studies of depressed students have found similar results, suggesting that students may use this music to help treat their depression rather than becoming depressed as a result of listening to it."
We could each find studies showing different positions. The issue is not whether
"Music is not neutral. "
I agree and disagree. I agree because music is very subjective. The reason I disagree is that music is very subjective. : ) For those who like it, rock music is calming or uplifting and classical is depressing/aggravating. For those who like it, classical music is calming and uplifting and rock is depressing/aggravating.
So, in that sense, music is not neutral. But it IS neutral because its purpose decides whether it is for God or not.
"Classical and Semi-Classical music affects all forms of life in a postive way."
Most classical and semi-classical puts me to sleep, although I like a little of it a little.
"All life forms experience a more abundant life than even the life forms that had not been exposed to music. However, all life forms experience negative effects from rock music. They experience stunted growth, brain damage, and death."
Perhaps for some plants. But many people find rock music to be relieve depressing emotions.
believer,
"we had a young man accept Christ and really great to see God work with regards to the weather and schedule. Plus we had two former NFLers come and just share two powerful testimonies with regards to their horrible upbringing and how they both came to realize without Christ life is hopeless, they really totally held the kids attention as opposed to any of the other speakers and as a result a lot of good seed was planted"
Awesome news! I'm glad God worked in obvious ways. I love it when He does that. I pray the seed will fall on fertile ground.
As for the saga about music, you can see how it goes.... :)
Prophet, wb, and all, I'm amazed this discussion is still ongoing. Had a great week at camp. Even though it was secular in nature we had a young man accept Christ and really great to see God work with regards to the weather and schedule. Plus we had two former NFLers come and just share two powerful testimonies with regards to their horrible upbringing and how they both came to realize without Christ life is hopeless, they really totally held the kids attention as opposed to any of the other speakers and as a result a lot of good seed was planted, so thanks for the prayers and good to be back.
I'll chat some more when I get home from work.
And once again, regardless of what scientists say about a particular style, I've got my own personal proof of the completely positive affects of Christian music (all forms) on me.
And why is it that you will use scientists findings to support your conviction of Christian rock, but you won't use scientists findings about evolution? Those scientists are most likely atheists. And they apparently don't understand the spiritual affects of Christian music.
But apparently you believe that Christians taking back the music that God created is evil. I disagree. God created ALL forms of music, and it's time that we quit letting satan use it for evil, and use it to glorify God.