LOS ANGELES – Energized by a comeback win, conservative activists want to apply the same formula they used to outlaw same-sex marriage in California to prevent other states from recognizing gay unions and President-elect Barack Obama from expanding the rights of gays and lesbians.
-
(Photo: AP Images / Denis Poroy)Wearing a T-shirt supporting California Proposition 8, Ruth Juarez prays during a 'Yes on 8' prayer event held at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego Saturday, Nov. 1, 2008. Thousands took part in the 12-hour prayer and fasting event. The ballot initiative would ban same-sex marriage in California.
Leaders of the successful Proposition 8 campaign say an unusual coalition of evangelical Christians, Mormons and Roman Catholics built a majority at the polls Tuesday by harnessing the organizational muscle of churches to a mainstream message about what school children might be taught about gay relationships if the ban failed.
Same-sex marriage bans also won in Arizona and Florida. But in putting together the California victory, the coalition overcame opposition from the state's political establishment and assumptions about how voters in the famously tolerant state would respond to taking away the rights the state's highest court granted this spring.
"Everyone told me it could not be done, people do not care about this enough, you will be overwhelmed and you will lose," said Maggie Gallagher, executive director of the National Organization for Marriage, a New Jersey group that provided seed money early this year to qualify the measure for the ballot.
"This is an issue people care about when they understand what is at stake and we mount a vigorous and visible defense of marriage," Gallagher said.
Same-sex couples are expected to start marrying next week in Connecticut, the third state after Massachusetts and California where courts have held it was unconstitutional to bar same-sex couples from marrying.
Unlike California, Connecticut does not have an initiative process that would allow voters to override the judicial decision there. So Gallagher said anti-gay marriage groups plan to focus next on New Jersey and New York, where the state legislatures are being lobbied to pass laws legalizing same-sex marriage.
The plan is to mobilize the same religious factions that joined forces in California to deter lawmakers from "taking on this divisive social issue while we are in the middle of a huge financial crisis," Gallagher said.
Campaign operatives attribute their success to the churches, which served as voter registration centers, phone banks and volunteer recruitment hubs.
Religious institutions also gave Proposition 8's sponsors an avenue to a range of ethnic voters, including many Democrats, said Mat Staver, who heads the Florida-based Christian legal group Liberty Counsel.
Catholic and evangelical Hispanics and African-American Baptists stood alongside conservative white evangelicals in arguing for traditional marriage. Exit polls showed 70 percent of blacks supported the ban, a far higher percentage than any other race.
"This is an issue that ... transcends political ideology, religious affiliations, races and time and history," said Staver. "It brings people together who ordinarily wouldn't be sitting at the same table together."
Gay-right activists attribute their loss in California in large part to overconfidence among Proposition 8 opponents. Although polls showed the measure far behind in mid-September, the Yes-on-8 campaign was raising far more money than its opponents.
"There was a lot of complacency. People didn't believe it could have been this close, so we had to scramble to raise money." said Yvette Martinez, political director for Equality for All, the coalition of gay, civil rights and liberal religious groups formed to fight the initiative. Continue >>
RSS
Prayingforournation -
I hope you're not the one "flagging" mike. Though he is deceived, he has been respectful for the most part of not flagging others - and we've said some things to him and other gay posters that I'm sure are challenging to them. Mike's been posting for a long time on this site, so he's just part of the ongoing discussion on CP.
Certainly, I wholeheartedly agree with you and we're one in spirit. You'll notice there are seekers, infiltrators, and down outright demons that pepper these discussion boards. I think it's time for us Christians to do the same to the gay sites if time allows. Share the love of Christ. Demons don't even like the mentioning of His Name!
@rolln4HIM
We need to take a stronger stand. Is there a website were people that are not in California can help the people there that are against gay marriage?
Being gay is a choice , just like being an alcoholic or a drug or sex addict. You can choose to be GOD or choose something else. If the people voted against gay marriage that aught to tell you something. I say we take a stand and say no you will not and it will not be made legal here. In Jesus Name. You have rights as a human being, but you don't have the right to bring immorality and make it law , not on my watch.
Mike -
I just watched a PBS documentary - cover story of CP website today. Trust me, those scholars have shown nothing new. I can have a grade schooler read through the Bible and if I ask them what 1 Cor. 6:9 and Lev. 18 and Romans 1 have to say about homosexuality, they'll come up with the same thing everyone else has come up with down through the ages - homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle. It's has only been in the last part of the 20th century that these new interpretations have filtered their way into mainstream society. Notice the corelationship between declining church attendance and progressive theology? This is the Biblical pattern: As people turn from God, Satan fills the void. Gay pride parades (and yes heter hedonism also) have been filling our streets. A few decades ago, these parades would have been run out of town. Slowing, as the ACLU weaves it's way through intimidation, these parades are becoming more and more prevalent as is the strength of the gay movement.
Mike-
Suicidal tendencies have been a part of the gay community for years before groups like Exodus and other came about. You must understand that Exodus wasn't started by some eager Christians that never understood the gay community. Exodus was started by former homosexuals. The power of the Holy Spirit delivered them from this destructive lifestyle and they are fired up about this ministry. Are there gays that use Exodus and then go back - certainly. But the ones that are delivered have testimonies that are out of this world. Literally. For you to broad brush all ex-homosexuals is like saying there are no ex-alcoholics. It's an ignorant and arrogant statement. It may very well be that you are fearful of it.
Mike -
And so goes the cultural wars in our society. I can only pray that you'd seek out a conference like "Love Won Out" or go to a chapter of Exodus to see how others are leaving the gay lifestyle.
Blessings to you ....
Mike -
I don't condemn nor do I have any power to condemn, but according to scripture, you stand condemned already. Only repentance can spare you the flames of hell. I'm merely a messenger.
Mike-
There was a time in American history when it was OK to marry at the age of 13 years old and perfectly acceptable. There are cultures that marry as young as 5 years old and sexual contact is just as common.
But my point isn't to give you a lesson in the practice of pedophiles or bestiality, my point is that IF there were to be a study suggesting that sexual orientation is biological, then would you clear pedophiles and bestiality of any wrong doing?
Mike-
Do you need a study or article to prove your love for your gay partner. You can't produce a study of someone's intentions or motive. Right?
For example: If a 50 year old pedophile's desire and moral standard is to have a loving and sexual relationship with a young girl or boy that is say 12 years old or so, then how is a study or article going to say whether he is right in having this relationship?
Or say a 25 year old guy loves his dog and seeks out a sexual relationship with his dog, then how is a study or article going to show that he really "loves" his dog. In California, a man wanted a legally recognized marriage to his horse. What about his rights?
Rolln, find me studies/articles about these pedophile couples. I would be thrilled to read them! You are willing to stretch any fabrication to smear gays because you have no ground to stand on. A little truth could help your cause my friend.
Mike-
Follow my "flock" blindly? It doesn't take a genius to read through the Bible and come to the conclusion that gays, pedophiles, beastility and others are condemned. It also doesn't take a genius to figure out that God didn't arbitrarily pick out anything. He designed the human body so that man and women fit perfectly together to not only enjoy each other, but to pass on a blood line/heritage. Gays can't and won't be able to do this. It's 2nd rate and it hurts society. You say that pedophiles hurt and you can prove this is laughable. There are millions of technically defined "pedophile" relationships worldwide that last longer than heteros or gay relationships, so by going through your logic it doesn't jive. Again, you want to set a standard to justify your lifestyle and not use the same standard for others. I say it again: Gays want to impose THEIR morality and standards on others, but don't respect the morals of the religious community. The people of America once again said we don't want gay marriage and now the gay community is having a temper tantrum. So much for tolerance. So much for the gay hype of tolerating others. To them, it's a one way street.
Rolln, how about the gay men and women who have been attacked by "Christians" during the protest and for years beforehand? You want to talk about tolerance, lets also talk about loving thy neighbor (and your child, rather than the thousands of gay youth thrown out by their parents when they come out.) You try and force me to say I support beastiality or pedophilia because I say Lev. is absurd, but you cannot think critically enough to answer the question I have posted before. Pedophilia and beatiality hurt people, either physically or mentally. Homosexuality does not hurt anyone, so why is it a sin? Every other sin has some worldly tie to it, but homosexuality is called a sin because God just arbitrarily decided it would be so. There is no logic in your thinking or interpretation of the Bible. You follow your flock blindly rather than using the magnificent brain God gave you.
Mike-
Let me put the fact more simply. The gay lifestyle is a perversion of God's design. Pedophile is a perversion of God's design. Bestiality is a perversion of God's design. Leviticus talks about each of these perversions. You say that you have to "throw out Lev." So according to your logic, all those other perversion are OK.
Here's a youtube post of PROP 8's response to the gay agenda's anarchial protest that has resulted in vandalism, death threats, terroristic activity, infiltration into churches to create chaos ... boy, the winds of tolerance is blowing across our land and don't the gay agenda folks just resonate with this example - NOT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU8uuPhQog0&sdig=1
Rolln, it most certainly is not a fact, it is something YOU and many of your friends believe in whole heartedly. Your belief does not make it fact. Everyone interprets based on life experiences, as do I, as do you. I don't think either of us can truly say who is wrong or right.
Mike-
Your ignorance isn't necessarily in the area of school policy and procedure, but rather in the area of spiritual truths and theology. Your have what some of us call purposeful ignorance - ignoring the fact that there is broad condemnation of the gay lifestyle all throughout scripture. Purposeful ignorance is defined as: Being a fool. So now you're an ignorant fool.
That's why I have far more respect for the homosexuals I know who read the scripture for what it is and realizes that the Bible says their lifestyle is condemned yet they don't claim to be Christian then for the homosexual who tries to justify their lifestyle using the Bible and claims that the gay lifestyle is condoned through the Bible. A gay who is living out the gay lifestyle and claims to be a Christian is an oxymoron. No different than saying a pedophile seeking a relationship with young children is a Christian.
Yea, that's not much more than you had on me, but you felt it enough to try and call me ignorant.
Got me Mike on the used/use - but if that's all you've found in all my post; I'm doing OK. LOL! Good thing I wasn't an English teacher!
Rolln, before you go claiming the ignorance of others, you should get yours in check:
use to = used to
You can have the marriage, you won't get the abortion rights.
Mike -
Not to keep pointing out your ignorance, but the schools in America are NOT allowed to teach any Bible course unless it's in the context of history and even then, most schools don't want to even touch this area as the ACLU intimidates and threatens legal action if the idea were even presented.
Since I use to teach in the public school system, I can tell you two great facts: 1 - the NEA is one of the most liberal organizations in America and it's members are 90%+ in favor the the Democratic party and policy (tax and spend mentality). 2 - ironically, there's a suppression of free speech and bigotry against religious affiliation. In other words, there's no teaching of creationism in biology or sex education subjects are pro gay or at the very least, spoke of in a positive light.
anti-gay opinion fropped 10 percentage points since the last vote some years ago. opposition is dropping so fast now. i wonder whne the next vote will be? same-sex marriage will become the law in CA and all across this country. it is a civil right.
"Schools can teach about the Koran or about the Bible,"
Actually...no. It is in specific situations like 'release time' that they can do that and it is off campus.
mike22685, placing of Bibles and the teaching of Creationism is not allowed in some if not many or most school districts in America.
There is a difference between inclusion and targeting other's beliefs. Schools can teach about the Koran or about the Bible, but they cannot teach one is wrong or one is right. Sure, you can put Bibles in the school or present creationism, but you cannot teach that it is right or that evolution is wrong.
"more people come to see gays are not the demonic monsters you paint us to be."
I think I've done a pretty good job of painting all of us as monsters! After all, what other kind of person would Jesus have to be murdered in place of?
"Having books in schools is inclusion,"
I want inclusion too! Let's put the gospel in every science book and all the verses that say marriage is between one man and one woman!
Mike-
The problem with you trying to compare divorce and the heteros with the gay community is that no one is arguing with you that divorce and promiscuity among the heteros is OK. It's sin just as much a living out the gay lifestyle is a sin. God hates it! Period. You don't hear of divorcees out on the streets protesting the church do you?
The discussion of what is taught in schools may be a completely different topic.
Rolln, it is not a lie that we want/deserve the same rights. Again, and I have belabored this point: Having books in schools is inclusion, not forcing anything on anyone. Our children have the right to feel represented in school, just as yours do, and there most certainly are books about divorce, single parents, holidays, etc in schools.
Mike-
As I've said before to you, the battle is not against flesh and blood, but the spiritual rulers. You personally, nor is the gay agenda, a demonic monster. Rather, it's the demonic forces that are the forces that have vialed the Truth to you and to others involved in the gay community. That's why we, as Christians, are called to stand up against this evil and atrocity.
You say it's not tangible? I recently heard a well known TV commentary that spent a his whole dialogue spewing the lie that all the gay community wants is the same rights as the "rest of us" have - to love and to cherish etc. etc.. This is a lie! The gay agenda wants total acceptance through teaching their perversion in the schools (tangible), through hate laws that prevent others to not be able to discuss gays in a negative light (tangible), and do I need to present more examples of tangibles. How about the church that fired the organist when he decided to "come out of the closet". The Pastor not only had received death threats, but also had his parsonage fire-bombed while he and his family were asleep. How about a New York school district that declined the gay agenda's curriculum targeting kindergarten students to sex education involving books that promote gay marriages - yep - the board members were threatened with violence and their cars were spay painted with hate messages. Funny thing, though it was caught on video - no hate crime laws were applied to the gays and their allies involved in that "protest". Do you understand what's going on: If you commit a crime against gays, you're apt to get prosecuted or fined. If a gay agenda member spray paints a hateful message on a hetero's car or on a church - nada! Ummm.
Mike22685
I do not believe rolln was calling you a monster (demonic). You are a child of God that falls into the devils temptation just like the rest of us. God gave us free will to either choose Him and all His commandments or not. We all struggle with sin in our lives and we may disagree as to what sin is, but we still have a responsibility to make sure we are not using our liberties as a covering for sin. I struggle with sin everyday and am convicted everyday when I stray outside God's will for my life. Keep seeking God and He will reveal Himself to you as He does for everyone that seeks Him. Good Blessings to you.
Rolln4him,
Its brother; continue to stand upon his Word.
Mike,
Our commitment to Christ has to be 100%; he is to be first.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me (Matthew 10:37).
When his word explicitly points out sin we should be willing to repent; we should not deceive ourselves by redefining it. It is not something you want to hear but it is the truth.
Your delusions are quite clear. People are more accepting of gays because as more people come out, more people come to see gays are not the demonic monsters you paint us to be. We are in all walks of life, through all races and socioeconomic backgrounds. People, like my parents, who still go to church every Sunday and most certainly are good Christians, see that I am not leading a sinful lifestlye, but rather am committed to my partner and strive to follow Christ each and every day in my job in the inner city of Baltimore. You pretend there is this gay agenda which is a tangible thing, and it simply is not. We have every right to protest, and you know Christians would do the same thing had they lost. Prop. 8 seriously effects our brothers and sisters who are in love and want to get married, and so we join together to overcome this force of oppression cloaking itself as Christian.
Online-
Thanks for standing with me brother/sister!
Mike-
You said in your post that "you have to throw out" Lev. - I didn't say it, you did.
We're talking two different levels here: 1st is the secular level and 2nd is the spiritual level.
From a secular standpoint, you are right - there seems to be a trend leaning towards acceptance of the gay community as a whole. This is to the credit of the gays persistence in forcing their lifestyle through lawsuits and propaganda that is slowing taking its toll on society. But like I've said in past post, the gay agenda is a selfish lying agenda. They only seek to force their lifestyle on others regardless of how others feel and what their convictions are. Proof of this is playing out in the protests that are going on after the passing of of Prop 8. Their protest will only backfire; especially if they overturn the will of the people through the court system.
Spiritually, the Christian community is starting to realize this and starting to wake-up. The demonic forces that is the engine of the gay movement is starting to tremble. When God's people stand, God moves and Satan doesn't have a chance. Prop 8 and many others across our nation that have banned "gay marriage" is just one sign of the power of God's people taking a stand against the perversions that are beginning to take root in our society.
Biblical there is no evidence for using condoms, yet many people still justify it. Just because something is not in the Bible does not mean we should not allow it. Historically, there have been many societies where same sex unions were recognized (Native American tribes often cherished the unions.) I think there has also been a tremendous amount of persecution in history towards gays. Until recently, it would have been dangerous to come out even in this country, so the idea of gay marriage couldn't even be put on the table. Stereotypes were thrown around (such as that we're all promiscuous or incapable of a committed relationship) but we know that is not the truth, and people are more comfortable with it.
Mike,
Rollin4him has made a couple of factual points here:
First, there is no positive scriptural reference to support gay marriage.
Second, we do not find a society that has historically supported same sex marriage.
Why do you think that there is no biblical or historical record to support your position?
Rolln, first of all, I am not throwing out any scripture that you don't pick and choose already. Tell me, would you sell your daughter because Lev. says you can? Do you wear clothing of only one material? Do you plant your garden according to Lev? Also, I didn't pretend there was a study confirming what has been my life experience, but I don't think you are in any position to cast stones since you have never attempted to walk a mile in my shoes. There have been many studies which suggest formation of one's sexual orientation is prenatal which are widely acclaimed, so it appears you are laughing on your own. Again, you ask about pedophiles when in fact there is no tie between being gay and being a pedophile (and there are plenty of studies that show pedophiles have a history of sexual abuse as children. Do not quote me with NAMBLA, they advocate for sex with teen boys, which they choose to because it is a turn on. A true pedophile goes after pre-pubescent children, which you'd know if you actually cared to research the issue.)
We can't forget to thank out Mormon allies in this cause. Reach out and thank your Mormon neighboor for their devotion to morals
You go, pro-traditional marriage activists!
You folks are way cool!
Unsung heroes!!
Now that we got this taken care of. We can go back and take care of those pesky interracial marriages that some U.S. Supreme Court "activist judges" saw fit to legalize in 1967, without everyone voting on it.
mike-
How interesting. Now you're "throwing out" scripture to fit your lifestyle. You're theology is as bad as your choice of lifestyle. Born that way? No studies present solid evidence of being "born gay". NONE! The ones the gay community put forth have been laughed out by a vast majority of other professionals as being biased studies. Even if there were such studies, would you accept pedophiles and other sexual deviant activities if they confirmed they were "born" this way?
You haven't addressed all the societies in history that haven't allowed gay or other sexual orientations.
Believer, I don't think I am stretching God's design for marriage. I don't take the fact that he never mentioned a man and man marriage as a statement that he would not support that love.
Rolln, Lev. is thrown out because it is surrounded by assanine laws which are longer followed, so to choose one out of the bunch would be absurd. The other verses are written about lust and choice. They were written when gay sex was a kind of ritualistic worhsip or entrance into adulthood, and Paul saw that as sinful since it often meant straight men would leave their wives to be with one another. In my case, I am not choosing to be gay, but rather was born gay. I do choose to act on my feelings, but do so in a way that is beautiful (in a loving, commited relationship.)
Mike-
So if you supposedly read the Bible, and I know you've explained this before, but for the record - how in the world do you explain 1 Cor. 6:9; Romans 1; Lev. 18 and others that directly condemn gay activity? This is aside from the fact these is no example of a gay marriage in scripture - NONE! No society in history that ever condoned gay activity - NONE! And the society that does - like Sodom and Gomorrah - well, we all know what happened to that.
I think that the next time any state puts gay marriage on the ballot, then all divorces that take place in that state should nullify two votes against gay marriage.
Or better yet, anyone who divorces should never be eligible for marriage benefits even if they re-marry. After all, so many gay marriage opponents use the Bible to justify their position.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
mike22685, and you don't stretch God's design for marriage?
Again, you assume too much. I have read the Bible a few times, especially the verses you throw at me, and still, I know you stretch them.
Thank you guys for sticking up for my post. If only I could remember what I said. LOL!
Mike - you must be calling all those that believe that being gay is sin as non-Christians. Surely this is laughable. It's highly unlikely that you even own a Bible and if you did, you don't or haven't read it.
Mike,
It wasnt me who flagged you . . .
I love that I was flagged. I also love that CP is currently tracking down the person who flagged me for no reason, don't do it again or you WILL be kicked off. Rolln, spreads nothing but lies. To compare gays to pedophiles is based on nothing but hatred as there are no psychological studies to back those claims up. Rolln is not a Christian, but rather one who hides behind their religious beliefs so they won't have to face themselves. Sad, so sad.
(Yeah, the nerve of rollin....actually standing up against sin on a Christian message board. Who does he think he is?)
I apologize to those who think otherwise but that was funny . . .