BOSTON – Gay rights supporters waving rainbow colors marched, chanted and danced in cities coast to coast Saturday to protest the vote that banned gay marriage in California and to urge supporters not to quit the fight for the right to wed.
Crowds gathered near public buildings in cities large and small, including Boston, San Francisco, Chicago and Fargo, to vent their frustrations, celebrate gay relationships and renew calls for change.
Supporters of traditional marriage said the rallies may have generated publicity but ultimately made no difference.
"They had everything in the world going for them this year, and they couldn't win," said Frank Schubert, co-manager of the Yes on 8 campaign in California. "I don't think they're going to be any more successful in 2010 or 2012."
Protests following the vote on Proposition 8 in California, which defined marriage as between a man and a woman, have sometimes been angry and even violent, and demonstrators have targeted faiths that supported the ban, including the Mormon church.
The protests Saturday were widely reported to be peaceful. Signs cast the fight for gay marriage as the new civil rights movement, including one that read "Gay is the new black."
But anger over the ban and its backers was evident at the protests.
One sign in Chicago, where several thousand people gathered, read: "Catholic Fascists Stay Out of Politics."
In San Francisco, demonstrators took shots at some religious groups that supported the ban, including a sign aimed at the Mormon church and its abandoned practice of polygamy that read: "You have three wives; I want one husband."
In Salt Lake City, where demonstrators gathered just blocks from the headquarters of the Mormon church, one sign pictured the city's temple with a line adapted from former Republican vice president candidate Sarah Palin: "I can see discrimination from my house."
Connecticut, which began same-sex weddings this past week, and Massachusetts are the only two states that allow gay marriage. The other 48 states do not, and 30 of them have taken the extra step of approving constitutional amendments. A few states allow civil unions or domestic partnerships that grant some rights of marriage.
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Contributing to this report were Associated Press writers Rupa Shenoy in Chicago, Adam Goldman in New York, JoAnn Loviglio in Philadelphia, Sarah Brumfield in Baltimore, Linda Ashton in Salt Lake City, Blake Nicholson in Bismarck, N.D., Tom Verdin in Sacramento, Calif., and Kamala Lane in Washington.
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Because of the media's all pervasive and very persuasive message that they are showing the truth to the people. They have successfully convinced many that sin is merely an antiquated concept whose time has gratefully passed and been exposed as a fraud.
True indeed, Nick....
Without the bigger picture then why would someone continue in 27 years of Bible study and completely miss the forest for the trees?
Why be a Christian and choose to disobey God? Who's is foolin' who?
Better to be a buddist, hindu, new ager or satanist for that matter or all the good it is to say we study the Bible, just remain unsubmitted to the Truth.
God won't compromise His expressed Word, why not just trash the 'study' and move on? Why continue to look for something within the pages of scripture that is not there, yet refute the clear sense of Scripture when it is there?
I guess it just takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.
DelightnTheLord, Reading the Bible and not submitting to its authority on some level is equivalent to proofreading a calculus text for grammar mistakes. Those who do not submit to the Bible's authority never apprehend God's bigger picture.
Then, that begs the question as to why Feet would want to post here and argue with believers over this issue, over and over again. Surely, he doesn't believe anyone here would be 'won over' to his perspective.
Just as you said, Prophet, you wouldn't understand calculus by reading...then why would you persist? You wouldn't; I think my mind would shut down completely.
But that hasn't happened to Feet, he still persists as he said he has studied for 27 years!
So, would this be a conscience issue as in it might bother Feet that he is gay? And claims the God of the Bible at the same time?
I see that God is purifying His Church at this time, could Feet be hearing a call to purity and fighting hard not to hear and come to repentance? If that is so, and it seems reasonable to me, then I would think Feet should honestly look at his resitance and ask himself how long will God strive with a man before giving him over to a depraved mind?
prophet, at times it seems like feet speaks calculus to me when it comes to some of his responses and like you I ain't got a clue about what he's talking about, but then again maybe he doesn't either and he knows I don't speak calculus.
I could read the entire calculus textbook, and still not understand a single thing about it. It seems that feet reads the Bible, but doesn't necessarily study it.
Feet,
I have a very difficult time believing you studied the Bible as you have claimed in earlier posts. I wonder why you even bother take the time. There is nothing in it that you believe and you can come up with no Scripture to support your hazy view of things.
Why do you want to be a Christian and study the Word if you come away with absolutely no light and no understanding of the Message?
feet,
The (culture) and the (self) of which you contatnly rely upon can never omit what has been written in Gods Word.
"at one this entire country supported ethnic slavery, and no rights for women and children. why do you constantly look to the culture and antiquity for an afformation of what is the truth?"
And thank God that good, Biblically based Christians intervened and helped change that.
What's your point?
feet, get real, if anyone looks to the culture to dictate right and wrong it is you my friend, as I said in another post it does not matter what direction the culture goes when it comes to same-sex marriage/union since God's Word is perfectly clear where God stands on the issue of both marriage and sexual intimacy. One man and one woman united as one in the sight of God has and will always be God's original and only design for marriage and sexual intimacy will always be reserved for the marriage bed of one man and one woman united as one in the sight of God for life through marriage.
feet, sexual intimacy is reserved for the marriage bed, considering very few states allow either same-sex marriages or unions,
at one this entire country supported ethnic slavery, and no rights for women and children. why do you constantly look to the culture and antiquity for an afformation of what is the truth?
so simple even a sinner could do it....
you know, that would make a great commercial.
God makes things so simple a sinner can do it....
He said in his word that He HATES divorce. So do I. I've seen what it can do to children. Why didn't he stop my 1st wife? It takes away from our responsibility. God is not co-dependent 'rescuing' us from ourselves. He tells us what we need to know and expects us to take His word for it. The Bible says in many ways in many situations that sex is reserved for the 'marriage bed' between a man and a woman. That is the Biblical standard.
The gospels are packed with examples of obeying. One parable talks about the two sons. One said he would do what he was told and didn't. One said he wasn't going to do it and ended up doing it. The point is...the one who did what he was told was the 'good' son. The Bible is clear in everything we need to know. Anything else is counterfeit.
good thing about homosexuality is that it keeps the dumb people from reproducing.
believer,
That's right. Homosexuals may be alright in the government's eyes, but there is even a higher power that thinks otherwise.
feet, by the way even if same-sex marriage/union does become the law of the land, sexual intimacy between "married" homosexual couples will still be a sin, since God's original and only design for marriage is one man and one woman united as one in the sight of God for life.
feet, sexual intimacy is reserved for the marriage bed, considering very few states allow either same-sex marriages or unions, if homosexual couples are having sexual intimacy even from a secular perspective they are violating God's design for sexual intimacy, therefore they are living in sin and specifically violating one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit, self-control.
Feet, we are required by the Holy Spirit to Surrender All.
This means when we ask Him to come into us we must give Him access to all the closets, cabinets and cubby-holes.
If we don't allow Him access to us, He will never voilate us to get in. If we don't allow Him access to sealed off rooms we will always be hungry for Him.
You hunger after God because you are thirsty.
All areas in our lives we do not surrender will always ache for His Touch. We hold the doors closed with all our mights when we engage our Self will to keep Him out. We already know what we want, need and so we don't ask Him to shine His light there, we already know how we want to fill those needs; generally with sin. If I let God in here it will hurt and feel bad, we avoid pain at all costs. But to know even further that the opening of this door; the removal of this Idol will feel like the demise of our very selves. We hold with tenacity because a strong sense of survival in the NATURAL man.
Survival of Self. Not death, not consecrated on the Cross, not offered up to God...
Our loving Father, Abba. He has a better plan or you and He promises not to foresake us while we allow Him to clean out the closets and remove our blind Spots.
One way or the other you will lay your sexuality at the foot of the cross and surrender it.
God has been calling you and all of us to walk Pure bfore Him. You are no different, rejoice if He is calling you.
Delight in Him and He will grant you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4.
Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
You have good Brothers here that care about you, keep talking to us.
Feet quotes: "but witness thru the holy spirit, thru the one who lives in us easily detects this"
Yes, the Holy Spirit does detect false spirits and will alert us AS LONG AS WE ARE LISTENING and actively SEEING.
In the case of a blind spot that results from:
a. An IDOL b. and/ or believing false doctorine.
We may not hear the Alert as in the potential that even the elect could become decieved.
Satan masquarades as an "angle of light" for a purpose; to decieve.
The Holy Spirit will never violate our wills; He will never work over past what we allow.
If we do not allow Him to open a cabinet in the house when He comes to dwell within our tent, He is a great Guest, He never snoops into places He hasn't already been invited into by act of the human will.
Who did you say you have your organized bible studies with?
I hope you have a good short trip, but please do check back on this page.
"Ever heard of a 'knock-off'? Counterfeits? "
sure there can be knock offs for the spirit............yes, satan can give the mere appearance of it, but witness thru the holy spirit, thru the one who lives in us easily detects this.
how can satan, who is of a different spirit duplicate the spirit? how can he duplicate the essence of the spirit?
surely our witness as believers thru the spirit goes deeper than mere appearance.
see you, gotta take a short trip
Hi Feet,
You've quoted this;"Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them".
Recognize who? A Brother? Do our Brother's here on this post disagree with each other over the meaning of Romans 1?
The only one who claims Christianity and lives like a gay man online here and now, is you.
Brother, we are all trying to recognize you, we just have a problem with the gay fruit being against what God is against in both OT/NT.
The fruit you seek to view is fruit you want to see within your relationship with your beloved. In your posts below you mentioned your sequence of steps you take to discern scripture and they all sound good. But the struggle still persists.
Where I think you get off balance is by the weight of Experience you credit your senses with even when they run counter to God's expressed Word. We all do this to a degree. You may only see that your activities and feelings as being good because they make you FEEL GOOD.
Feeling good must equal good fruit in your view. This is a priority problem; nowhere in Scripture are we ever to go with what feels right...in fact the right way to walk is usually one that goes against our inclinations to feel good. Feeling good most times means the flesh feels good and is never an indication of our Spiritual fruit.
Fruit of the Spirit such as the Fruit of Self Control must be practiced especially in areas that disagrees with the expressed Will Of God.
Bottom line, you may have a big Idol in your life and as you admit a few posts ago, it is entirely possible you are being decieved.
"no one has been able to explain how the words of the verses of scripture(His Word) say that homosexuality is a sin?"
Really? I think we worked it to death. What words are you missing?
"does that mean the fruit of the holy spirit is the same as the fruit of the spirit of satan?"
Ever heard of a 'knock-off'? Counterfeits? If the fruit doesn't come from the Spirit then it isn't the fruit of the Spirit. The Bible talks about even the elect being deceived. Once we lose the absolute standards then many things can 'pass' as the real deal. Still, when you put them up against the absolutes in the Bible as written then they no longer pass.
This has been a major point of what I've been saying. This whole 'my interpretation' stuff doesn't get it. 55 means 55. There is no interpretation involved. The problem comes with one's pride in wanting to be right when the Bible clearly says one is wrong. You either accept the Bible as written or you play by your own rules to one degree or another.
Romans 1 and the scripture in Corinthians is very explicit about homosexuality being a sin. To not see that would required a willful action on a person's part to ignore the fact.
feet,
Jesus will NEVER say, or tell you to do something, contrary to His Word. So if somethine/someone is telling you to do something unscriptural, you can rest assured it's of the devil.
"a 'spirit" or one who lives in you , { let's say it's JESUS} tells you something contrary to HIS word"
no one has been able to explain how the words of the verses of scripture(His Word) say that homosexuality is a sin?
please read the thread of this discussion and explain?
feet, even if living that lifestyle leads them to violate the fruit of self-control?
Matthew 7:16
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Matthew 7:20
Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Matthew 12:33
"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.
Luke 6:44
Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.
if the fruit of a gay marriage, that is two gay people who hold christ as their lord and savior, that their marital relationship exudes the fruit of the holy spirit, the same way as any believing heterosexual married couple,that is, that their sexual intimacy enhances rather than diminishes that fruit.............does that mean the fruit of the holy spirit is the same as the fruit of the spirit of satan?
If a 'spirit" or one who lives in you , { let's say it's JESUS} tells you something contrary to HIS word then I would say it isn't from HIM. Same sex marriage is an abomination to HIM. GOD does not lie or change, so if a "spirit" is telling you it's ok for someone to live that way, you should test that spirit. A man lusting for another man is no different than someone lusting for another's spouse. It is sin and if you struggle with that then your pastor's or accountability team should rally around you and pray you through it and get to the root cause of it. How come seeds come from the fruit that produce it right , so how come marriage isn't of the same seed GOD initially produced. One man + one woman = Real marriage = children = generations.
DP & Prophet: Thank you for your support; I appreciate it.
"If your post doesn't contain offensive word"
I didn't even see them. Still, even though those two are on the opposite sides of the issues many times they don't post stuff worthy of flagging. What is this...if you can't fight it - flag it?
Yeah, like cramming for your test as you're walking to your class. LOL
remember in HIGH SCHOOL if I wasn't ready for an exam..............
I DONT THINK YOU ARE ALONE
ifeelfine,
I agree with you. If your post doesn't contain offensive word, or derogatory remarks aimed at anyone, I see no reason why someone would want to flag you. I apologize to you on behalf of whoever is doing that.
There are some real cowards on this site - what I said was not the least bit offensive - I guess what I have been saying is true - it certainly struck a nerve. So who flagged me?
feet, that's it because your post totally avoided the issue of self-control completely with regards to the fact it is a Fruit of the Holy Spirit and your claim that something is a sin when it opposes a Fruit of the Holy Spirit and unmarried homosexuals having sexual intimacy does just that with regards to self-control. I remember in high school if I wasn't ready for an exam I would hope I got essay questions since I'd simply write away in hopes of making the teacher think I knew what I was talking about and hopefully get a good grade on the test and that's what you do when you either don't have an answer or realize your answer is totally contrary to the Word of God.
"Would whoever flagged feet and ifeelfine please let us know what they said that caused you to feel the need to flag them, I was hoping to hear a response to my posts to them so I could respond in turn."
THIS IS IT?????
feet, Al Jolson and Fred Astaire couldn't hold a candle to your tap dancing ability, when all else fails just start tap dancing and blowing smoke to avoid and confuse the people who are holding ones feet to the fire of God's truths.
Feet wrote: "anything is possible."
Thanks for your honesty.
The Holy Word definitely tells us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.
I am concerned for you, though. Continue to fear and trembling, feet.
anything is possible.
1 thessalonians 5:20 test everything, keep the good.
i have three tests.
(1) thru the reasoning of the scripture, under the understanding that scripture is inerrant and all scripture is god breathed. and that my understanding is supported by all of scripture.
(2) that my understanding is affirmed by what i witness thru the eyes of my heart thru the holy spirit and the one who lives in me. this means that all witnessing has to be done in fellowship.
(3) that my understanding is supported thru what i acknowledge thru living .that god has made.
it is my understanding that each believer is called to own, be responsible for, what he truly reasons in his own mind as the truth.
this is also true for what he witnesses in fellowship in their heart thru the spirit and the one who lives in him and also for what he acknowledges that god has made.
on this site i find very little of the second. like there are a whole lot of believers who distrustful of what they see, thru their own hearts, thru fellowship, thru the holy spirit, thru the one who lives in them.
feet, do you believe satan deceives? Satan deceived Eve in the garden. He had her believe what God said was not the truth as it appears and that He was holding out on her.
Is it possible satan is deceiving you as well? Could satan be having you believe what God has said is not the truth as it appears and that God could not possibly be holding out homosexual "love" on you?
Serious question, try not to get mad.
"feet, you use the Fruit of the Holy Spirit to support your view that homosexuality and same-sex marriage are permitted by God. One of the Fruits of the Holy Spirit is self-control. But if a homosexual is having sexual intimacy with another homosexual that would be sinning against the Fruit of self-control since sexual intimacy is reserved for the marriage bed and in all but about 5 states from even a civil law perspective same-sex marriages/unions are not allowed. So are you willing to rebuke those homosexuals who profess to be Christians who are sinning against God by sinning against the Fruit of self-control?"
its interesting that someone would bring up popular referendum as a mandate from god, when we know the percentages of church goers. of course god could use what is not of him to do his will.
why would we credit human understanding with manifesting the essence of the spirit, when the truth is the opposite. it is what is witnessed thru the eyes of the heart thru the holy spirit what is of the spirit that leads us in our understanding of scripture.
what is witnessed, is that heterosexual and homosexual committed married couples (although not recognized by the state homosexual believing couples do marry.) their sexual intimacy in both cases equally enhances the fruit of the spirit in their relationship
it is a fact that marriage counselors as part of their counseling of marital couples . regardless if the counselors are laity or clergy, both find it important to determine the frequency and satisfaction of sexual initimacy. because it is considered important indication of the health of the marriage,
this is true of homosexual as well as heterosexual couples.
CONTINUED
CONTINUED
creditation of one orientation , while at the same time denegating the other comes from belief rather than actual witness.
if one believes the sky is yellow does that make it anything other than blue, or if he believes something is of satan does that make it of satan.........no! belief requires the pronoun i, and has nothing to with what is real. it merely indicates what is in the mind of the believer. to add one gets their understanding from scripture does not change one scintilla what is actually real.
what is not about self control in having a commited shared life with another believer based on mutual respect, love, trust, devotion, and affection. does respect stop being respect,. does love stop being love commitment stop being commitment................etc merely because its about a same sex couple rather than an opposite sex couple.
maybe according to belief............................but never according to witness........ a witness of when walking in the light...........which means a witneess thru fellowship.
" if we walk in the light as he is in light we have fellowship with one another........." do you think that there is love without fellowship. do think that when jesus said love your enemies meant love with out fellowship. if we have fellowship with our enemies...............then surely we have fellowship with believing brothers we disagree with...
i made some changes .........maybe it is appropriate now
are you ready to copy it?
here it is again. you better copy it if you intend to respond to it.
Would whoever flagged feet and ifeelfine please let us know what they said that caused you to feel the need to flag them, I was hoping to hear a response to my posts to them so I could respond in turn.
Let us do what the Israelites did at Jericho . Take the city with a shout unto GOD with a voice of triumph. You know if we sought strategies from HIM to get all the gays saved then guess who's going to protest, all those newly saved folks will focus their energies to tear down Satan's Kingdom. Let us pray their eyes opened and their hearts ready to receive their saviour.
ifeelfine, in language even a five year old could understand could you please tell me what in the world are you talking about, because if your goal was to confuse me congratulations you did it. Then maybe it could be you have no answer to a very simple question and rather than being mature enough to admit it you respond with "nanny, nanny, boo, boo" remarks.
feet, you use the Fruit of the Holy Spirit to support your view that homosexuality and same-sex marriage are permitted by God. One of the Fruits of the Holy Spirit is self-control. But if a homosexual is having sexual intimacy with another homosexual that would be sinning against the Fruit of self-control since sexual intimacy is reserved for the marriage bed and in all but about 5 states from even a civil law perspective same-sex marriages/unions are not allowed. So are you willing to rebuke those homosexuals who profess to be Christians who are sinning against God by sinning against the Fruit of self-control?